ResEdChat Ep 66: Cultivating Community: Sense of Belonging, Wellness, and Connection in Student Living Spaces

Crystal Lay:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, where we highlight cool people who do cool things and talk about cool stuff in residence life and college student housing. I’m your guest host, Crystal Lay, and I use the she/her series pronouns.
I am very excited about today’s episode. If you’re familiar with what we do, at the end of every episode we say, “Hey, if you have an idea for a topic or a person you would like us to chat with, please reach out and let us know.” Well, guess what? It happened. Someone sent me a LinkedIn message and said, “We want you to meet this human, she’s phenomenal.” So I’m very excited to have you all meet our guest today, as we talk about a range of topics. We’re going to talk about empowering women, we’re going to talk about Greek life, we’re going to talk about physical space and how it can contribute to your wellness.
Let’s have our guest introduce themselves.

Liz Toombs:
Hi, Crystal. I’m Liz Toombs, and I own PDR Interiors. We are an interior design firm based in Lexington, Kentucky, but our work takes us all over the country because we focus on design for Greek houses, so the sororities and fraternities of the world. I’ve been doing this specifically for Greek housing since about 2010, been in the design world a little bit longer than that. I have what I call a strong but mighty team of remote workers, spread across a few states. I’m excited to be here and have this conversation with you today.

Crystal Lay:
Well, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. I’m really excited. I’ve never engaged with someone who’s done interior designing, so really excited to learn more as we get to the parts about space.
Let’s start with you’re a member of Alpha Gamma Delta. You’ve had the awesome opportunity to be a mentor for countless women, in addition to some amazing accolades that were shared with me. You host a podcast, you’ve been a professor, and also you’re a cancer survivor. I was excited and thrilled to see that part because that has touched my family as well. Just again, truly in awe of your accomplishments and your resilience. I feel like there’s a ton to learn from you. Just again, sitting and being excited with connecting with you today.
I want to start our conversation by having you share some of the things that you think we should be aware of, as we support our women who live on our college campuses.

Liz Toombs:
I think the biggest thing to remember is listen more, talk less. The experience of college is ever-changing for students, so what you or I may have experienced when we went through our four, or five, or however many years of schooling, it’s a little bit different now, a lot of things have changed. We’ve experienced COVID, that has affected these students in countless ways that I don’t think we’re ever … Not ever. I don’t think we’re currently seeing the full effects of. I think it’s going to be a much longer look back. There’s just so many ways that affected these students. Technology is such a thing so that has a mental effect as well, with social media, and being a little bit closed off and in your dorm room.
There’s just so many things going on, so I think listening to the students is really beneficial because you can really hear them and hear the undertone of what they’re saying, good or bad, as far as their experiences. Then you’re able to talk with them and help them, whether you’re their parent, an aunt, an uncle, a friend, or if you’re someone like me who is a business owner and employees some of these students, and offers internships for them. There’s just ways that you can support them by listening.

Crystal Lay:
There’s a phrase that says, “You have two ears and one mouth.”

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
I think that listening piece is really key. Our students, I think this is a time of, “I can stare at a screen, I am isolating myself,” there’s a lot of heaviness in the world for everyone, and also again, trying to navigate college.
I wanted to shift into this idea of what is wellness? As students are navigating these different issues, we’re coming out of this pandemic, what does wellness mean? How do we empower our students? What are some ways that that has shown up in your work, particularly as you are designing living spaces for students?

Liz Toombs:
I think wellness is such a broad, all encompassing term. It’s everything from mental wellness to actual physical health, whether that’s fitness or being sick, absence of disease, that type of thing. Emotional wellness. All of those things roll into one.
Our environments play a huge role in our wellness as a person. That’s what’s really neat about what me and my team get to do, is we’re creating these environments for these college-aged women to live in, to be in and to have that college experience for however many years. It starts with when they walk through the door of a space for recruitment to see, “Is this a group of women that I’m interested in engaging with and being a part of?” To then, their time spent at the house, whether that’s just socially or for meals, all the way into if they’re living at the house.
What wellness means to those students varies greatly, and it really changes from year to year even. What we try to do is get in there, and again listen. I don’t mean to harp on it, but just ask questions, listen and understand how they’re going to use it. Are there certain moments where they want to all be gathered together? Maybe it’s watching a TV show that they love to watch together and then talk about. Maybe it’s having a chapter meeting. All of that togetherness. But then also, do they have those moments where they need some privacy and they want to be a and individual? Maybe they want to decompress. Maybe they need to have a sensitive conversation with a healthcare provider, or maybe they’re taking a job interview.
We have to figure out how to make possible all of those spaces so that they can have those moments. Then, it ties back into their wellness because they feel like they’re being supported as a whole person.

Crystal Lay:
Now, how does this happen? Do the sorority women come up with the list of things they’re looking for? Or do you all say, “Here are some best practices and things to consider?” How do you make this come to life for those women?

Liz Toombs:
Yeah. No, that’s a really insightful question and I appreciate it. A lot of times, the chapter women are pulling pictures, “Here are beautiful spaces that we love, that we’d like to emulate.” Also, “Here are some things that we have to achieve while we’re in this house.” Then we’ll ask more questions about what that looks like, how we can serve those functions. But then, we do also share, “Hey, here’s what went successfully at another chapter house. Would that be something you all are interested in? Or does that not suit your needs?” It just facilitates more conversation so we’re able to get to the crux of what we need to accomplish, and then start making selections that suit those needs.

Crystal Lay:
Okay, wonderful. I don’t know if this is an industry secret thing, but what are some don’t dos? As you think about, we provide housing for so many students and you’re talking about chapter houses, which I have seen in some residence spaces, residence hall spaces. But are there don’t dos, like we know this will not have the best impact or outcome, as we think about wellness for students? Does that question make sense? Some interior design don’t dos for wellness.

Liz Toombs:
Yeah. No, it does make sense. Gosh, I feel like I’m always so focused on, “Here’s what works.”
Some don’t dos. I think you just don’t want spaces to feel closed off and that they don’t foster community. A whole point of these organizations is the community that they give you so you want to make sure that you’re supplying a space that community can happen and connection can happen.
Also, I think another don’t do that comes to mind, and this is pretty similar to what I would say for a residential home as well. Try to avoid making spaces very dark. The more light that we have, the vitamin D, the brightness, we feel happier, we feel better. We tend to be in better moods. Less depressed, less closed off. I think avoiding making things too dark, whether that’s through your paint color, the fabrics you put in the room, closing off the windows, things like that.
It’s things that probably tie back to common sense more than it being any sort of industry mysticism.

Crystal Lay:
I love that. I was like, “I don’t know if these are trade secrets.”

Liz Toombs:
Yeah. No, no, not a secret at all.

Crystal Lay:
Thank you. You’ve shared you primarily do sorority spaces. I want to talk a little bit more about Greek life, if that’s okay.

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
I had the opportunity to work at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, which is often called the Mother of Fraternities, because there’s so many organizations that started there. A part of my role was to liaise with the Greek Life Office on campus, in between Residence Life. I think there’s a ton of really cool opportunities for folks who join fraternities and sororities. I am not a member of a Greek organization.
I wanted to know if you can talk about what are the benefits of joining a Greek organization?

Liz Toombs:
Yes. As a side note, Miami University is a personal favorite of mine. I think the campus is beautiful. I could go on and on about how picturesque it is. It’s not far from where I am in Lexington and we’ve had the pleasure of working on four or five Greek spaces, most of them are what you described earlier in the podcast, of them being a suite in a res hall, just on that. Then we’ve done one individual freestanding house. Anyway, just a personal favorite of mine.
But as far as benefits for joining a Greek organization, I’ll tell you what I got out of it. I can look back now and see how being a part of Alpha Gamma Delta helped to hone my leadership skills. I can see you have opportunities to take leadership positions within the organization and lead your sisters. I think at that age, of 18 to 22, that is a great experience to get. It’s something that will really serve you later in your work life and probably your personal life as well. The leadership skills are great.
Personally, I came from a very small high school. I was ready, when I got to college, to just go somewhere big, get lost in the shuffle, so that not everybody knew everybody. I chose a university that offered that, but I wanted to go Greek because I still wanted to have a place to belong. That was my little home within the university, and where I could belong and connect with people. I think it gives you a group of people that you feel at home with and you can connect with, and everybody needs that, everyone needs that connection. I know that we think that we love to be off in our rooms, away from everyone. But again, we’re seeing now some of those effects from COVID pulling us away from people, we’re really craving that personal connection.
I think just in general, you also learn to have a philanthropic spirit when you’re involved in Greek life. Every Greek organization has a key philanthropy that they’re involved with and they work on raising money for that throughout the year, they volunteer their time for that. That’s something that I know that has stuck with me as well. It’s really instilled a spirit of service within me and wanting to give back to my community in whatever ways are out there that I’m able to do.
Those are probably the big things that I would say you can walk away with by being a part of a Greek organization.

Crystal Lay:
I love that. I love that you talk about belonging. That feels like such a buzzword or phrase right now. There’s a lot of research and conversations about sense of belonging, we want to make sure that students belong. I think about what are the things that universities can do to offer, to help foster that. What are the things that the students should be doing? Then, how do we look at belonging based on affiliation or identity? Because it’s not a one size fit all. We are doing these 10 things, now you belong.
Do you have more to say about that? How do you start to foster the sense of belonging or what are some things that we could be doing as folks, particularly in housing, to create belonging for our students who live on campus?

Liz Toombs:
Well actually, because I’m familiar with Miami’s campus, I will cite this example. I know that there’s the individual dorm rooms, you’ve got your roommates, but you all also have community kitchens and hangout spaces on each floor. I think that’s really nice because when you’re in your individual dorm room, again, you’re in a silo, you’re pulled away from everyone. But when you go out into those common spaces and you’re making a meal, eating a meal with others, or sitting around watching a TV show or playing a game, you get that sense of community and that sense of belonging. It doesn’t have to mean that everybody there thinks the same way you do, looks the same way you do. It just means that you’re accepted how you are and you’re accepting others, and just enjoying their company.
I think the more communal spaces that housing can provide for students, the better chance will be that they feel like they belong and they’re enjoying the time at the university. Then they’re not packing up every weekend to go home or feeling like they’re isolated from their peers.

Crystal Lay:
I think you’re spot on because I’ve visited some campuses and worked on some campuses where the bedrooms were smaller, and they devoted a lot of the space, the square footage, to these community spaces, and community kitchens, and fireplaces, and these little nooks and areas where folks could just be.

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
That was really, really powerful to see folks gathering, and cooking together, and learning from each other.
I think it also ties into community bathrooms. I know that’s not everyone’s jam. But brushing your teeth next to this human-

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
You’re bound to get into conversation and meet someone who could be your lifelong friend. I’m very appreciative of you naming things that are so simple. Let’s eat together, let’s be in community, let’s brush our teeth because this is our home nine, 10 months out of the year.

Liz Toombs:
Some of my favorite memories are getting ready next to my roommates in college, the sisters that I lived with in college, standing there … I know it seems like you want your own bathroom, you want your own space, but you do. You have music on, you’re curling your hair, you’re talking about where you’re going that weekend, all of those kinds of things.
I won’t be able to cite the specific study, but I always have students that come in and work with me in an internship and a part-time capacity. I think three interns ago, I remember one of the students coming in from class and saying that there had been a study done on university housing. Everyone thought students wanted private bedrooms and private space, and really great amenities in their dorm rooms, but what they were finding is the best sense of happiness within the students was when their living quarters were a little smaller and they were forced out into those community spaces because they were meeting people, making friends, all of the things that you just listed.
I think that’s fascinating, that we tend to think we want one thing, but the reality is when we don’t have that, we’re actually happier.

Crystal Lay:
I am getting chills because I’m thinking about my Facebook friend group. Several of them were women from my floor my freshman year of college. It’s been over 20 years, and we’re still in community and connecting with each other so definitely something to be said for that.

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
Oh, memory lane. I want to go back a little bit and ask another Greek Life question.

Liz Toombs:
Sure.

Crystal Lay:
Sometimes I’ve been in spaces where Residence Life professionals who can be anti-Greek. You share some really good benefits, some positive pieces. How can we be more supportive? As someone who’s in the Greek community, who’s had a beautiful and great experience that you continue to engage in and see it as an empowering thing, this community service piece, how can we change our tune or maybe open ourselves more to the possibilities and support our students, versus leaning in to some of the misconceptions? Or, “This one thing happened with this one chapter, so Greek Life must all be bad.” What would you like to see from housing folks as we think about supporting our students who have gone through recruitment, accepted their bid? Or even those students who said, “My grandpa was in this, my great-grandpa, I didn’t get a bid, I’m a failure,” because we see all that. I guess my question for you is how do we support them as they begin their Greek Life journey maybe?

Liz Toombs:
I think, if the time is there, understanding what it is that’s driving that student to want to be Greek. Is it the family connection? Is it a place to belong? What is that driver for them? Because then you’re able to support them if they find a place to go or if they don’t. It’s not the end of the world. If you don’t get a bid, you’re not accepted, you’re just being redirected and something better is going to come along. It’s hard to believe that when you’re 18 years old and crying, but that’s the truth. As someone with experience in Res Life, you know that to be the case. If you can understand why they’re wanting to be a part of it and why it’s important to them, I think you can reframe the experience and help them shift that mindset.
You’re right, a lot of times, if someone has a bad taste in their mouth towards Greek Life, it’s because of a stereotype. Television, movies, they all portray it a certain way. It could be looked at as elitist, it could be looked at as just a party culture. That’s the only time Greek Life lands in the news, is when something really bad happens, someone made a mistake, and then it gets plastered everywhere. You don’t always hear about the positives going on and what the actual balance of that is. So just educating yourself and looking for some of those positives in the experience, too.
When you’re in Res Life, a lot of what you’re hearing is problems. People are bringing you issues and complaints, you’re getting it from parents, from students, from coworkers. Sometimes you just have to sift through that and take it like, “Who’s the source here? What can we do to make this better?” I really found, I don’t know if this has been your experience, but when the class of students turns over every four or five years, you’re getting a whole new crop of students in so there’s a whole new experience to be had. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to be the way it was the last time you had freshmen coming in, it’s a whole new group.
I just think education, and listening, and trying to seek some understanding is helpful because everyone has a different perspective on what Greek Life is.

Crystal Lay:
Definitely. We’re skipping around here, Liz. I want to go back to interior design. Do you have your absolute favorite place that you decorated or you were part of this project? What made it? Can you describe it a little bit? Then, what makes it your most memorable space?

Liz Toombs:
Okay. There are two things that come to mind, if you’ll allow me to have two.

Crystal Lay:
Yeah. Yes.

Liz Toombs:
I’m notorious for this. I’m like, “I can’t pick just one, there’s two things.”
The first one is probably the first project that I ever traveled for out of state. I went to the University of Maryland. There’s a little bit of a backstory there, that I’ll go through really quickly. You touched on me being a cancer survivor, but cancer has also touched my family in other ways. My mother had just passed from cancer. I’m a new business owner, just a couple of years in at this point. Really hungry, trying to hustle, get it all done, and then manage this family situation. I had gotten a call where I was asked to travel to Maryland. I said yes, I said sure. I usually don’t bring my personal life into my work so I didn’t really tell them what was going on, it didn’t feel appropriate. I also had the mindset, at that point, that I’m young, they may not trust me if I have this going on, I can’t let them know.
What I believe is, God’s provision, it all timed out beautifully. I was able to travel after handling that situation and taking care of what needed to be done. That project was actually relatively small for me to travel for. It was a situation where the client asked me to go and accessorize a house that had just been redone by an architecture firm. They felt like the finishing touches to make it feel like home for the women were missing, so I traveled up there and I did that. That didn’t really click for me. Okay, traveling, doing this remotely, we can figure this out. I think there’s something here, I’d like to explore that. That one is special and a favorite because of all of those things. It started this decade long journey now.
Then another favorite of mine was a project I did at Oklahoma State. It was a large project, went on for a couple of years because it was a renovation and an addition. The board that I worked with was just lovely. I actually very much miss working with them. That’s the part of the job that stinks is that you get so close to people because you work with them for a long time if you’re doing construction, and then all of a sudden it’s over and they have their space. If they’re a volunteer, sometimes they roll off the board, you go on to other projects. I just really enjoy that personal connection with people and that board made that whole experience lovely. They were so grateful for our expertise and the help that we provided them professionally, so it’s a special one, too.

Crystal Lay:
Thank you for sharing a piece of your story with me and with us. The passion that you have for the work is definitely coming across. I love that you talk about it, this connection not just to the project but to the people and really getting to know them, and delivering something that’s going to help them feel like a part of something. Everything that you’re saying is really tying together so nicely for me, so thank you.
I want to transition to talk about some of our campuses are creating spaces for identity communities. They’ll have, “This is a Black Living learning community. This is an Indigenous learning community.” Or some affinity space. Do you have experience or do you have thoughts for folks who are working to build or create these spaces for students that are tied to an identity? Because the gravity of that really feels like home and belonging feels like there’s higher stakes, potentially. What are some things maybe folks can keep in mind as they’re thinking about creating these spaces?

Liz Toombs:
Again, just tap into who you’re trying to serve there. What is it that that community of students is looking for? What makes that a safe space for them? What makes it a place that they want to go and study or hang out? Or maybe even bring other friends to that aren’t a part of that community, but they may want to learn more about it. Just get very clear on what those students are looking for. Try not to make assumptions one way or the other because it could be something completely different than what you have in your mind.
I know that’s the process that we take when we come to the Greek projects. It’s just ask a lot of questions, if you can.

Crystal Lay:
That’s perfect. I like that you talk about, again, what do the students want, what does the client want, asking questions, because I think as administrators, we might have this idea. Or I might say, “When I was an undergrad, we did this.” But it’s really about the current students. I think also the sustainability. How do we keep up the space and how do we honor what these students want, and what students may want to come? Then I think too, this refresher. Like you said, every four years, folks are going to turnover, so what are some moments we can assess the current group and refresh as needed is what I’m picking up on, too.

Liz Toombs:
Yes, absolutely. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we have to bend to every whim of the 18 to 22 year old range. They’ve not had the life experience to have homes themselves or to have gone through this before, so you as the Res Life professional have that experience and that backing. There’s certain things you’re probably going to say no to.

Crystal Lay:
Right.

Liz Toombs:
They’re super trendy or it’s really off the wall, we’re not going to do that. But by them sharing that desire with you, you’re then able to come back and say, “I hear you on this. That’s not really practical. What about this instead? Here’s why that works.” That’s a way to get their buy-in and they feel supported by you instead of you’re patting them on the head and saying, “No, no, no. That’s not going to work.” There has to be some mutual respect there.

Crystal Lay:
I like that, I like that. My last question … Well, maybe second to last, Liz. We’ll see what happens. You’re also a professor, or have been a professor. If you had to do a last lecture, this is my favorite question, what would that be on for your students?

Liz Toombs:
Oh my God. Oh my goodness, I don’t know. I did a short stint as a professor. I did it for one semester on soft skills and I really loved it. Again, I’ve talked about COVID more today than I have in a long time, but it was when COVID hit. My students went home at Spring Break and they never came back, I only saw them on Zoom. It turns out I was their only professor that required us to meet at the same day and time because it was soft skills and I wanted them to have face-to-face interaction with me and them.
If I had to give one last lecture? Oh my goodness. The ones that stuck out to me the most from that class were when I lectured on the importance of networking, and then gave them a project that they had to find someone in a profession that they were very interested in pursuing, reach out to that person, take them to a coffee or lunch, and then interview them about that. I think that’s it. I think I’d probably talk to people about researching and learning more about where they want to go in life and starting to make those connections, and then foster those connections as they continued on. That’s really how I built my career and that’s a whole other episode topic because I could talk for a year on networking and it’s value.

Crystal Lay:
Well, maybe we’ll have to have you back because I am so curious. Oh my gosh. Okay. We have covered belonging, connection, community spaces, wellness, survival and resiliency through difficult life moments, Greek Life, all these things. Thanks for going on this journey with me.
If anyone is, “I want to learn more about any of those topics, I am so intrigued,” where do you recommend they should start or look to learn more?

Liz Toombs:
Oh, gosh. A good Google search. Just jump on, see what pops up. You have to be discerning about what pops up for your sources. I certainly think that’s a way to start. Or if you’re someone who is on a college campus, maybe tap into some experts on campus that could talk to you more about that. Again, I’m huge on utilizing your network and learning from people around you, so there’s just a lot of benefit and value from going to someone who is an expert in a subject. It does a lot for your relationship with them because you’re seeking advice from them and that makes them feel good.

Crystal Lay:
Yes, yes. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we sign out here?

Liz Toombs:
I feel like we’ve really covered the gamut today. I appreciated all your questions, Crystal. As you can tell, I’m a talker so I could do this all day long. But this was a great opportunity and I really appreciate you letting me share my story and my perspective on collegiate housing and the collegiate experience.

Crystal Lay:
Well, thank you so much. I have learned quite a bit. We are looking to build or create some different community spaces here so now I feel like I’ve been able to add some more to my toolkit. Also, being mindful of the opportunities to build community for our students, and then also our staff. I think sometimes we don’t think about sense of belonging for our staff. It’s very salient now, given all the pieces with we talk about the Great Resignation and morale. My hope too is that a lot of the things that you talked about, folks can also view that as applicable to the staff and our different colleagues as well.

Liz Toombs:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
It makes the work easier and a lot more fun when you feel cared for.

Liz Toombs:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. I hope that they’re able to find application in what we talked about, too.

Crystal Lay:
Well, thank you again, Liz, for joining us today. If you all want to learn more about a topic, about a person, please reach out to us. Thank you for tuning in, y’all. Take care.