ResEdChat Ep 58: Justin Mason on Using a Strengths Based Approach in Residence Life

Dustin Ramsdell:
We are here with the final in our ongoing series talking with our blogging team. We look forward to this, hopefully, being an ongoing annual tradition, just making sure we take some time with our writers and chatting with them and get to know them a little bit more and the themes of what they write about and what brought them to Roompact. But we’ll start out as we always do, Justin, if you want to introduce yourself briefly, your professional background, and then we will go from there.

Justin Mason:
Awesome. Well, hello, my name is Justin Mason. I currently work at Georgetown University where I serve as an associate director of residential education. I’ve been in the field, I think I’m going on 11 years professionally now, within the whole context being residence life. So I’ve jumped between public schools, private schools, and I’m very excited to talk about this topic today because it’s one I was introduced to when I was an undergraduate student.

Dustin Ramsdell:
So the topic being, bringing a strength-based approach when it comes to residence life, and certainly, there’s a lot of different applications. So we’ll just follow where you lead us, Justin, of the ways that you have either just examined, the possibilities or had the first experience of implementing it. But just in case folks aren’t aware, how would you define a strength-based approach when it comes to residential education?

Justin Mason:
Sure. So to clarify, I am drawing from Gallup strengths. So a lot of people, probably in their younger years, like when I was an undergraduate, it was called StrengthsFinder, StrengthsQuest. Now I think it’s called CliftonStrengths. But we often see this… it’s a test that folks will take. It’s based off of positive psychology where it tells you what you’re naturally talented at. And so a lot of times, I feel like what I see schools doing is they will have students take the test and then that’s it. But I think to really apply it into residence education, it’s really taking that information and putting people in the right spot. So when you know what someone’s talented at, when you know what intrinsically motivates them, it’s as a supervisor, as a manager, an educator, it’s putting those people in places where they can thrive, because a strength space approach would say, if you’re able to do what you’re naturally talented at, then you’re going to be feeling a sense of alignment, a sense of purpose, and that’s really what we want in residence education.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. Like you said, I’ve been familiar with it since I was an undergraduate, and I think similar timelines that we’re working against here were about 10 years ago or a little over that. The advent and the popularity of this approach really, really hit the scene. I mean, I’ve found any of these inventories and it gives you just the four letter code of your personality or whatever else. If nothing else, it just gives you that language to talk about, yeah, these are the things I really enjoy or I’m really good at, or this is how I work with other people, whatever it is. But strengths is so unique in the sense of, it really so heavily emphasizes people’s capabilities and what they’re good at and all that versus it being like, well, you might like this or you might not like this, or whatever.
And that is also true. So I don’t think any of these is like, oh, well, if you only use this, then you’ll be golden or whatever. But strengths is set apart and I think is maybe even the starting point maybe, because it is so affirming versus getting into a lot more of the messy complexity, where you might end up being like, cool, this definitely resonates with me but I don’t know necessarily how to necessarily go from there. But like you said, it’s like this, you can definitely position people to be doing work that they will thrive in, and I guess we’ll just have the greatest impact. So I guess, just to clarify too, I know that there’s… I guess there’s different levels of certification, all that. Is that something that you’ve pursued and undertaken of the-

Justin Mason:
Yeah. So a majority of my experience has been through training, so RA training. And the school I was at prior, they organized a level one training so we could help out with new student orientation. So they brought in a consultant from Gallup. But we had taken our test. When you get the training, you get your full 34. And just for folks to know out there, apparently, education is the industry that by far wants to know their full 34 versus other industries. So as you know, if you do take the test and you only pay, I think, the $20, you only get your 5. So I got access to my full 34, and it was just an out-of-body experience. I was really appreciating what was being said, and I got this hunger for more. And so I looked into what does it mean for me to do more, because it really focused on one-to-one what they would call coaching.
And so I took a course that was funded by my department, thankfully, and it was more on organizations, like dynamics groups, and that was my bread and butter. So ironically, I got certified in February 2020, and I had this master plan that I was going to start a business, and then COVID happened literally two weeks later. So it’s funny because it’s been something I’ve always been passionate about but it more so is showing up in my work in the way that I manage. I haven’t yet crossed over into being a full-blown coach. But I am certified and I can do that.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, I know. My version of that. And I feel like we all… whether we want to revisit that part of the trauma or not, I’m just like, what were your grand plans for 2020 that you were going to… because I was going to go out to a bunch of conferences and stuff, I was building momentum and hustling on that end. I mean, I guess just even the spirit of what you’re saying, the applicability of getting certified and doing all that just in terms of the higher education world, where that… if nothing else would be your day-to-day, it could be new student orientation starting with that kind of transition or student staff training, especially in residence life and all that kind of stuff.
So with all of that, to just really focus in on that point, there’s a lot of different things in the way that this could impact students. And I’ll have a follow-up too, I guess, if you can start germinating on about the impact that might have on staff members as well. But starting, obviously, so much of this would be hyper-valuable to students as they’re developing their identity and everything else. So just to expand upon that, what is the impact of this approach on students?

Justin Mason:
So I think to really have the impact that it needs to, it needs to be more than just the inventory test that you mentioned. So I think it’s what you do with that information once it’s out there. And so once a student knows what they’re talented at, making sure that they’re reflecting on that, because here’s another thing, people will want to compare answers and be like, I’m also this. We must be the same person. That’s not true. So doing some reflection on how that shows up in their work, and then making sure that, that shows up in their interactions with one another. So a lot of times, in my own journey, I would… One of my talents is I move very fast. Before I really had this awareness of strengths, I would work with folks that moved at a slower pace and I would just get so frustrated, and I wouldn’t understand what is going on.
And once I understood their strengths and realizing, I think the strength that they had was called intellection, which means they need time to ruminate process, I was like, oh, you’re not thinking of something. You’re not moving slow. You just need time to ruminate on stuff, where for me, I’m already running down the road. So I think that’s where it really has impact, is how can students interact with one another to what you said before, you have that shared language and understand that perhaps we’re just approaching this differently and that’s not a bad thing. And then hopefully, and when they seek employment or just other leadership opportunities, how are we placing people in the right spots? One thing that Gallup strengths is very clear about is you don’t want to use it for hiring. So you want to be very careful in saying, we need someone who has communication in their top five.
You want to be careful with that because really, it’s just an indicator of how someone is going to approach things. But you can be a great communicator and not have communication in your top five. As much as folks want to say, it’s a typology test, you want to be careful about labeling people. But it is a great introduction to how someone values their time, how they show up. And then if we can do that for students, then I think we’re going to see a greater sense of belonging and greater sense of connection to the institution. That’s what we really want. We want students to come and stay at our institutions.

Dustin Ramsdell:
That’s a very good point, because I think to that idea of like, you can’t just have this one-to-one, we’re looking for this person, we need that strength. And if they don’t have it, then they must not be good at it, and all that. I have seen just a shifting of the top five, and then some just totally dropping and new ones coming in, just depending on where I am in my life. It’s almost like, with the idea of strengths and taking that as a metaphor, it’s like I’m just working out different parts of my body or whatever. Just the idea of like, oh, okay, I’m still a student, or I’m in my first professional role, or I just moved, or whatever. I feel like all of those have an impact. So it is good to not take it as this infallible. The idea’s like, well, if it’s not in their top five, then they are horrible at it.
It’s like, no. It’s obviously the idea, too, that having that full 34, it is the idea like, these are all the strings that people could have. It’s almost like, these are all the different quadrants of muscles on your body. It’s like, we use all of them and they’re all just going to be at different levels. It’s not as if it’s like, well, if you don’t have it in their top five, they don’t have it at all. It’s just that other point that you made of empathy that’s such a interesting of additional benefit of it, I think, of just going through the whole exercise, you would have empathy for people that have different strengths than you.
So I think that is a really, really powerful thing. And I guess, you’re someone who went through it as a staff member and through that lens. So whether it’s just purely you as a working professional, getting benefit from that program, or if it’s the way that you work with students or work with other colleagues or whatever, whatever way you want to take this, but what do you feel like the impact of this approach is on staff members themselves?

Justin Mason:
So I do think it parallels with students. I think a lot of times, especially in higher ed, we’re working on committees, we’re working together. We are often not doing something alone. We’re leading a team. And so I think that self-awareness first off about, how does my mind… how am I wired? What am I naturally talented at? And then for me, I guess I’m a bit of an oddball because most of my talents… So the talents are grouped into four categories, relationship building, strategic thinking, influencing, oh, and this is pretty bad, I’m forgetting the fourth. But what I will say is I am heavy in influencing, which is something you would more so see in business or marketing. And so a lot of what I think about is I’m an extrovert. I get out there, I love to razzle-dazzle, the parents and the students, and so I would often build a team that complimented me.
My team was a little bit more introspective, a little bit more critical thinking, ways to balance me out. And so I think with staff, it’s a great way to understand, like, how can I complete what I may not be natural at, because that’s the other thing, to your point about the full 34, the folks would say that your 34th is never going to move up so significantly that it’s going to be in your top 10. So if I know that empathy is my 34th and that’s not something that I’m naturally talented at, perhaps I can fill in the gaps so I can have representation in a more holistic thought process or approach to the work that we’re doing. And so I think in management, I think in putting teams together, it really makes sense. But then also in supervision, going back to the point about perception of one’s abilities and how they approach stuff, I felt like once I started to have a deeper understanding in my training of strengths, the way I had conversations with folks that I supervise looked different.
It wasn’t like, hey, you missed this assignment. It was more so like, walk me through your day to day. Talk to me about your thought process. What’s important to you? What fills you with joy? There’s a phrase that we talk about as coaches that says, feeding your strengths. And more often than not, I found that I had people that were talented in areas where their strengths weren’t being fed, and the work that they did as live-in staff, they weren’t able to exercise what they found exciting. And so as a supervisor, I would shift and think, how are ways that I can put them in this position? How can I feed that talent and strength so they feel a sense of belonging and a sense of purpose and value? And so I do think it parallels the students but I think in a more mature way, it’s about that sense of, how can I actually do what I’m good at so I feel like this is a place worth staying and that I’m safe and that I belong in?

Dustin Ramsdell:
I mean, I think that’s well said of just like, anything that we’ve said, whatever, if you have all the quadrants of staff to students, or whatever direction the arrow is going of who’s interacting with who, it’s going to be like, greater empathy, doing work that feels really affirming and sets you up for success, whatever. I mean, just really, if you can help make sure people are equipping each of those lens, whatever direction things are going in, they’re not having it almost just be completely self-serving because it’s like, yes, that is a really great impact. You better know yourself and all that but it’s like, hopefully, it is also allows you to express greater empathy towards other people that have different strengths.
So with all that being said, again, and we’ve talked about that, we’ve had exposure to this and incorporated over span of over a decade, is there something that you feel like makes this approach so important, generally, and then maybe especially at this moment, because I feel like the idea of coming out of an isolating pandemic and people still earnestly pursuing their academic and career goals and everything else, do you feel like there’s something about this moment that makes this approach especially important?

Justin Mason:
I think even before the pandemic, it’s to the point that you were saying before about, I think it’s easier to digest what you’re good at than here’s what you’re not so great at. I think as human beings, we’re naturally wired to want to improve what’s not good, as opposed to really what Gallup would say, is we need to maximize in our strengths. It’s just not in our nature. And so even before the pandemic, I would say it’s a great way to get people in and get invested without being too worried about like, oh, once again, empathy is my 34th, how do I become more empathetic? But I would say post-pandemic, we also need to look at the workforce. I am a millennial and I am now, I guess you would say, a upper leader within my institution. I am working with Gen Z.
When you look at millennials and what they want, I think the thing that stuck out to me is millennials want constant feedback. They want to know how they’re doing. My mom is a boomer and she made it clear to me that if your boss didn’t say anything to you, you knew you were good. And I was like, oh, no, I need to ask my boss, how am I doing? How can I be better? And then you have Gen Z that is so connected through media. They want a purpose, they want something to matter. They want integrity and trust. I think it’s really about having a platform to have these honest discussions or folks feel seen or folks feel valued and they don’t feel bad for how they think. I think, before, like I mentioned, when I was more immature, I would be upset with the person who didn’t do things in the way that I thought that they should.
Now, those conversations are more about curiosity and help me understand. And I think those are much easier for folks to digest. And if we could have conversations more like that, I think our workplace, our environments would be more copacetic because another thing, I’m sure we all know, is Gen Z folks are very quick to want to change jobs if the vibe is not right. And so it’s really about how do we have that vibe be more celebratory and focused on, here’s what you do great, and let’s put you in the right position as opposed to, you’re not doing what I need you to, I need you to do better. And I think pre-pandemic, those conversations happen more about, I need you to do better as opposed to, let’s find how we can get you into a great spot.

Dustin Ramsdell:
I think that’s a good point where… I guess my takeaway, I think it capitalizes where you were saying the nature of the tendency of our generation as we got into the workforce and everything, but it almost… I think it allows more flexibility as time goes forward, like you said, of that you could work with more empathy, work with more an affirmative approach and everything versus before, where it’s just like, the complete absence of anything, where it’s just like, well, that feels fairly rigid. There’s not any flexibility in a blank void, I guess. So that idea that you could move this forward as each generation keeps permeating the workforce, it would just trickle down and just, everyone could incorporate a perspective like this and give each other, give whoever’s coming up behind them or whatever else, give them what they need.
So that makes me really excited, that idea of what’s really important for this moment as more people are wanting this more deeper constructive work relationships with their supervisors and different things like that. There’s now just more great tools to do that. So there’s definitely a lot for this topic, a lot of information, stuff that people I’m sure can examine. But is there any top resources or just advice or anything that you’d recommend as we start to wrap up?

Justin Mason:
I mean, I would say if you, in your own journey, didn’t take the test, take it. Also, you mentioned something before that I love. I think there’s two different camps of thought. The one time you take the test, it’s the truest results versus I am in the camp of significant life moments will shift how your brain is wired. And so when you mentioned that you noticed a reshuffling, I have too. I took it as a graduate student and then a first time full professional, perhaps you get married or what have you, those things do rewire your brain. And so I would say, take it if you’re curious and then just do some reflection. I think it’s a great tool just to better understand yourself, and then if you love it, then do it amongst your team. I think it’s, once again, easy to grasp because who doesn’t like to talk about what they’re good at?
And it’s not to say that you can’t talk about what you’re not good at, but the focus isn’t so much on, shame on us, we’re not good at this. It’s more so, how can we collectively work together knowing that this is perhaps a blind spot for us on our team? And I just think those conversations are always easier. I’d also like to add, throughout this conversation, I realized the fourth category, which is executing, and I say that because I actually have no talents in executing in my top 10. So that’s probably why I didn’t remember. But halfway through, I was like, oh, the final one is executing. And that doesn’t mean I don’t get stuff done but I think the way in which I go about it looks different. And it’s usually through influencing or relationship building, so.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Good. It’s a good save, making sure because [inaudible 00:19:34] listens through, it’s like, this guy doesn’t even know. Well, and yeah, I think that’s part of the idea of people are going to be more intimately acquainted and knowledgeable of their strengths and the categories and adjacent ones or whatever, versus just being like, it’s hard for me to get my brain into how somebody with completely different strengths would operate and everything. So yeah. Definitely, that’s the initial seed to plant, is if you haven’t taken it, take it and then that can blossom into like, okay, you at least just have a good shorthand for operating in that way. And then, obviously, some people pursue certifications and all these different things, but it’s like, that’s obviously not required to just be a human being who lives in the world that appreciates the spirit of what this is.
I mean, I would absolutely believe, because as you were saying that of doubling down on life events changing what your strengths might be, it’s like, and I’ve not taken it since I’ve become a father, and that’s like, I’m sure you’re going to be a huge difference in stuff. So I’m past due, I think, for another inventory here. So segueing from that, I mean, that’s obviously a big professional focus for you and everything, but we like to just ask everybody, what attracted you to writing for Roompact? I think some people had familiarity with writing before and all that, but just curious, what made you take the leap?

Justin Mason:
So it’s funny, it was a few things. So the cohort before me, I knew two of the four folks, and I was intrigued about… Having a different platform to express oneself, I had, early on, in my professional development plan as a first year full-time employee, I wanted to present at a conference or do something a little bit more scholarly, and it has yet to happen. I also feel like the conference has always happened right after opening, so I always miss a deadline. So I was like, you know what? This would be a really cool way to be able to express myself, not necessarily in a scholarly way, but a more maybe commentary or just some advice or something that I think could speak to what folks are thinking about, hopefully. Hopefully, it’s interesting. It doesn’t hurt that there was these cool caricatures.
That’s what sealed the deal for me. So when I saw everyone’s little caricatures, I was like, I got to do this because these are adorable. But for me, it’s been great because I have a lot of thoughts and opinions and it’s been fun. It’s almost like taking me back to graduate school where I can just reflect on now I’ve worked in the field for 10 to 11 years, then I can just talk about what I’ve experienced. And it’s an opinion piece, so you can agree, you can disagree, but it’s just cool to be able to put out there for the masses just some different topics. So I’ve enjoyed it.
I also am still figuring out what my next career move will be. I’ve chosen to go back to school, and I’m in a MBA program now, and I’m still very much serious about doing some coaching or consulting, but for higher ed. And so I saw this as an opportunity to get a different type of skillset in my wheelhouse where I could say, I’ve now written, I’ve maybe talked about our field through more of an objective lens, and I would like to think that in the consulting world sometimes, there is some writing of objective, like, here’s this, here’s that. So it’s been fun.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I mean, it’s a very valuable exercise. I’ve done it intermittently ever since finishing grad school, so it’s over 10 years and stuff. So that way that you can distinguish yourself, putting yourself out there, get better at connecting dots and putting ideas together in a way that’s palatable and understandable by an outside audience. I mean, I think it is just a good muscle to keep working, I guess, to keep that metaphor going. So yeah, I’m really glad that you felt inspired. I mean, that’s like part of it with doing these interviews, is trying to just help more people feel inspired and feel willing to take that leap, because it’s the idea where like, I have had periods where I wrote a lot and burnt myself out on it but then it’s like, I feel inspired after a while to come back to it. So it’s like, whether you’ve never written for a external publication before or are just ready to jump back in, it’s like, we just like to hear how people come to it.
And I think we certainly had a lot of people this cycle that either had just finished or in the midst of some graduate or doctorate programs, that’s like, hey, I’m going to be doing a lot of writing anyway, or I at least should be able to share my work. So I think that’s an interesting angle as well. So we wrap up these more informal interviews with folks on the blogging team, just talking about what you’re looking forward to. It sounds like you’ve got a lot of cool stuff with the MBA program and all that and some of your other plans, but what are sort of micro, this academic year or whatever, whatever way you want to take it, what are you looking forward to?

Justin Mason:
I mean, I would just continue off that same vein. One of my top 10 is learner. I love to learn, and for quite some time, I’ve just not been able to exercise that talent. I feel like I’ve been a doer, especially with COVID, it supports students, it’s fixed problems, and it is so fun to be a learner again. So I am in a cohort, I am learning topics that I never thought that I would grasp. I’m actually doing pretty well, much to my surprise. And so I think what I’m excited to do is to practice what I preach, and I’m now activating more of my talents than I have for some time.
And I think I have a greater sense of joy these days. I’m excited to go along the ride I just entered, so I don’t graduate until 2025, but to see where that takes me and what that new knowledge will open my eyes to, whether they’re opportunities or just ways of doing things, and so it’s just ironic because I know that a lot of my joy is coming from a talent that has been on the back-burner for now but now it’s at the forefront.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. Well, it’s just been incubating and all that time and just warming up and now it is out in the world. I mean, as part of it is the journey, the MBA journey, and then it’s like, okay, then what happens afterward? It is always that idea of, okay, whenever you’re a student, there’s awesome things that happen in that process. And then you graduate and it’s like, well, this is just the beginning. You get the whole vista opened up of… I play video games, I’m thinking of just, oh, you just finished the prologue and now you’re like, you walk out and it’s like, cool, here’s the whole open world game that you could play and do whatever you want.
So yeah, it’s really exciting. Well, we very much thank you for your service on the blogging team. I think the timing of these is like, folks are starting to wrap up their year long commitment to everything. So folks can stay tuned. We’ll hopefully reach out to the next batch of folks, I think we’re going to start recruitment for here soon as the recording and posting this episode in December 2023. So keep an eye out for that, but really appreciate you taking some time out and hanging out and talking all about strengths.

Justin Mason:
Awesome. Thank you so much.