In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, Crystal connects with Dr. Catherine LaRoche, Assistant Vice President for Student Engagement at Western Kentucky University, to explore what AVPs need from Housing and Residence Life leaders. Catherine shares how housing leaders can communicate data and risk, build trust, anticipate their AVP’s needs, and help senior housing leaders confidently advocate for the department.
Guest: Dr. Catherine LaRoche (she, her, hers), Assistant Vice President for Student Engagement, Wesntern Kentucky University
Host: Crystal Lay
Background music via https://www.FesliyanStudios.com
Listen to the Podcast:
Watch the Video:
Show Notes:
- ACPA Senior-Level Community of Practice
- NASPA AVP Initiatives and Steering Committee
- 2026 NASPA Institute for Aspiring Vice Presidents for Student Affairs
- AVP: Leading from the Unique Role of Associate/Assistant Vice President for Student Affairs
Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Crystal Lay:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast where we highlight cool people who do cool things in residence life and college student housing. I’m your host, Crystal Lay, and I use the she/her series pronouns. Today, we’re going to be talking to an AVP who’s going to tell us information that might be helpful to know when you’re thinking about residence life and student housing. I wanted to talk to someone who, A, is in the seat, but also could give some tips based on their experience, particularly for folks who are directors, senior directors, executive directors. The title can vary because we’re often called to tell our story, and the folks who are telling our story may be our supervisors. And so what better way to help us to think about what might be important to share or think about than someone who is helping us advocate for our team, our department, and ultimately the students who live on our campus?
And I looked in my contacts and I had the perfect person, and so I’m really excited to have our guests introduce themselves to you.
Catherine LaRoche:
Hello, my name is Catherine LaRoche. I am the Assistant Vice President for Student Engagement at Western Kentucky University. I’ve been here about three years now, but prior to here, I also worked at Arizona State University within Housing and Residence Life and the Dean of Students Office, so go, Devils. And I also worked at Adams State University in Southern Colorado as a hall director. So that’s kind of where I started my career. But overall, born and raised in Kentucky, went to University of Louisville, so go, Cards. And also, while I was at ASU, I did my master’s and doctorate there as well. So I’m excited to be here. What an exciting topic to talk about. So I’m looking forward to the discussion.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you for joining me. I love your school spirit. That’s one of the things I really enjoy about you. And also we met each other through AIMHO.
Catherine LaRoche:
Yeah.
Crystal Lay:
So also what you give back to the different regions and to our profession is really amazing. So I just want to give you a public shout out, Catherine.
Catherine LaRoche:
Thank you.
Crystal Lay:
So let’s get into our first question. I think and know that every AVP, AVC is different. And so for you, when you oversee Housing and Residence Life, what do you need to know to feel confident that things are going well?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yeah, that’s a great question. For me, I really need overall updates is what I look for when I’m meeting with my directors. So updates on projects that they’re working on, updates on challenges that they’re experiencing or the department’s experiencing. But anytime my staff are giving me updates on challenges, I always tell them I need a solution as well. So what solutions, what are the things we’re trying? And so those are big things that I need. Also, just any data that helps share our story and our successes, because these are things that I can take note of. And when I am in spaces with my leadership, so my supervisor or the president, I’m able to share the great work that’s happening within Housing and Residence Life, but also the work that some of the challenges we’re experiencing and where we may need some support across the table.
Crystal Lay:
So you just talked about data. And so in housing, we know there’s no shortage of that, right? We’re talking about occupancy, budgets, staffing, facility, student experience, and more. And so for you, what information or metrics do you actually want to have regularly? And then what are some things that maybe could stay within the department?
Catherine LaRoche:
Well, all of those that you mentioned are important data that I definitely want to be aware of and be updated on, but I think the ones that are probably more regularly used are probably occupancy facilities and student experience. Those are the ones that when I’m sitting in meetings with the president, the provost, the CFO, and other leadership members, those are the types of questions I’m being asked. So what are our occupancy numbers? And because obviously we’re comparing that to campus retention and our enrollment numbers. And then I’m always asked about what types of facilities issues are students experiencing, how quickly are we responding to those work order requests, how many of those have been escalations, how many of those are from parents? Or even with student experience, wanting to understand how the LLC experience is going, how many students are participating in the LLCs, looking at programming satisfaction, what are some changes that we’re making to our signature programs that we put on campus?
And so, I’m constantly getting questions around those. So those are probably the ones that I want more regular updates on. However, those other data points are very important. I would say budget, staffing, conduct, those are probably data that I would want to see more on maybe a monthly or every other month basis. So quarterly possibly, but really those other ones, occupancy facilities and student experience are probably the ones that I actually ask for weekly from my staff.
Crystal Lay:
That’s really helpful because if folks are wondering for a place to start from, those make the most sense to me. And so I’m going to go check my notes and make sure I’ve been doing that with my AVP folks. So thank you for sharing. So one of the things that comes up too is crisis. And so housing leaders are constantly navigating things that could potentially be bigger issues. How do you want your housing leader or how should housing leaders communicate risk or emerging concerns without making everything feel like a crisis in a field where there is a lot of crisis? Does that question make sense?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yes, absolutely. So it’s very interesting because sometimes depending on the situation, it may be one of those where I appreciate the heads-up where, “Hey, I’m dealing with this situation, here’s what I know. I’m gathering information.” But then sometimes I tell my staff, “Reach out to me when you have the information you know that I’m going to ask for.” So sometimes they may be navigating those situations, gathering information, and then typing that up and sending it over to me. And a lot of times it’s because I know what my boss is going to ask me for, and so sometimes it’s better for you to just gather all the information so I can send it in one text to my vice president.
Crystal Lay:
I really like that. And so I wonder, is it on the AVP to communicate to the director to say, like you said, here’s what I know I’m going to be asked for, so prepare this for me and/or should the director come in knowing these are the things that I should be providing. And it sounds like maybe it’s a little bit of a both/and. Yeah?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yes, exactly. So definitely a both. I think, for example, when you’re a new director in your role, I think it’s completely appropriate to ask your AVP, what is the information you want? So if I’m dealing with a, we’ll just say a student transport situation, what is the important information do you need to pass up to our vice president? And so a lot of times in the beginning, I will make that very clear to any of my staff, not just my directors who are on call so they understand this is the information I’m going to ask for. So I try to make that clear in the beginning, but for our directors who have been around for a while, they just kind of know, they keep track of what types of questions I ask. And I notice that they will include that information when they send me that initial update, which I love because then it’s less I’m asking them questions unless they have to go back and ask more questions to the staff who may be on the ground dealing with the situation.
Crystal Lay:
Yes, I think there’s that quote that says, “Clarity is kind,” right?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yes.
Crystal Lay:
I love that answer. I think Renee Brown maybe. So now I want to actually take a little bit of a different path. So I think you’ve had a housing background, you have a housing background, and so now that you oversee housing, you’re not in it day-to-day, is there anything that you didn’t fully understand that you now maybe view differently?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yes, absolutely. So it’s very interesting because when you think about when you are in the day-to-day, and especially it really depends on the department size too. I think when I was in the day-to-day with Housing and Residence Life at Arizona State University, that’s such a huge department, such a big university. And so there is an individual for every aspect of Housing and Residence Life or they have a team that they work with. And so I’m so used to, for example, budget and occupancy come to mind first. While I dabbled in budget and occupancy, I wasn’t the person who was creating the budget or who was making the cuts and telling the staff that here, this is a change in your budget. And so I was given the budget at ASU, and so someone else created that.
But being here in my role as AVP, I am now fully in the weeds of creating that budget and making the decisions on what we’re going to cut and delivering that budget to my staff and being able to articulate the why and helping them understand. And then when it comes to occupancy, I may have done some room changes or some billing and dabbled in that, but I don’t know if I fully understood how important occupancy or how it’s related to our enrollment or being able to pull a report and be able to analyze it and explain it to our leadership on campus. And so I think being in this role, it has really thrown into, okay, here’s what it is. Now you have to learn it. And so I think those are areas where, depending on your department size, you may still have someone who does all of those things, but if you’re at a smaller university or a middle-sized university, you may be the person doing all of that.
Crystal Lay:
So you talked about sharing these reports, the data, the information with different levels of leadership. And I’m wondering about the trust piece because you’re going to your directors and asking them for information, they’re sharing with you and some cadence that you’ve prescribed for them. How do you develop trust in your housing leaders to the point where you feel like you can confidently advocate for them in their department with cabinet, with the president or other senior leaders?
Catherine LaRoche:
That’s a great question. So I take this back. It’s so interesting, and I’m sure this is true for many senior leaders in housing. You reach a certain level where the training goes away. There is no training, there is no manual. You do the interview, you get the job, and you are just thrown in to solve all the problems, lead the department. And so I always have some empathy for someone who’s stepping into that role, fresh, brand new. I remember when I was at ASU and I stepped into the assistant director role, I remember asking the associate director, “Okay, when do I start my training?” And he was like, “Oh, there’s no training. This is your training. You jump right into it.” So for me, I try to always give directors a little bit of grace and understand, especially my new directors who come in. I always give them grace and I try my best to really help them understand the high level things, my expectations.
And so when it comes to trust, I think with time that is built up. And a lot of times for me, the two things that really stick out to me is how they show up in spaces and then also their knowledge of their area. So if you are the director of Residence Life, I expect you to show up to the key signature programs, even if you don’t have a role being present. And then I’m not saying you have to be there the whole time, but be present. And I’m watching for, do the students know who you are? Do the student staff, the professional staff, how are they engaging with you?
And then the other piece is really making sure that they understand everything. So if Residence Life has living, learning communities, student conduct, do you understand how many beds are in each residence hall? It’s the little facts because the thing is I want to be able to trust that I can pull them in when I have the Board of Regents wanting a tour of a building. I should be going to you to help me with that tour. And if you don’t understand how many beds are in this building, what population lives here, key programs that happen in this community, then that’s a challenge. And so, a lot of times what I expect of my staff is I want them to be the expert in their areas and I want them to be able to show up and be present, but then also being a team player at the same time too.
And so, even if you are Res Life and it’s the director of operations does move in, I still expect you to be fully present and engaged in the move in. So a lot of it is that’s how my trust is built when I understand how you’re showing up for the team and then understanding you have to be the most knowledgeable person of your area so that I can ask you the questions that I may not be in the day-to-day of.
Crystal Lay:
This is perfect because you’re talking about presence and also how do you get to know your area? And I think we do that, it’s really scope. If you’re an RLC or hall director, the expectation is that you understand your building, community, traditions, what are all the different pieces to make sure that that community, that hall has what it needs? And that’s an expectation. And so, why would it be any different as you continue to add to your scope? And so how do you gather that information? And it sounds like it’s trust at every level. I am trusting that the ROC knows their community. I’m trusting that the assistant director knows their area. So it sounds like what are the different measures you can put in place to feel confident in each role? So I appreciate how you broke that down.
Now, some of our conversation has really been anchored in each AVP can be different in what they’re looking for. And I’m thinking about leadership style, I’m thinking about communication style. And so how can a Housing and/or Residence Life leader figure out what their AVP wants and needs from them? Because I think you can directly ask, but power dynamics, that could be a little intimidating, especially if you’re new, how do you ask that question? I had a prior experience a very long time ago, and I remember asking my supervisor what their expectations were of me, and they said, “We don’t do that at this level.” And so for a very long time, I was really nervous to ask that question because I felt like, “Well, that happened to me once. Should I ask that question again?” So that’s not everyone’s experience, but it still sits in the back of my mind. So Catherine, my question is how do you go about or what advice would you give to someone to ask their AVP what is wanted and needed to set them both up for success?
Catherine LaRoche:
Yeah, that’s a great story because thinking about that question, one of the first things I naturally think is ask them what they need. And so, I appreciate you sharing that because there may be leaders who don’t want you to ask them that. So thank you for sharing that. But I do think that if you have started to develop a great relationship with your supervisor, your AVP, and what I always value is when my directors do just ask me, “What is your expectation?” And sometimes that might be situational, right? You may go into a parent escalation situation and you are managing that and it happens to go above to me, then I want you to be comfortable asking me for feedback on how you handled that situation or what could you have done differently or even better if you come to me and tell me what you think that you could have done better.
But the biggest thing is I think definitely, hopefully you are feeling comfortable to ask them what they may need. And like you said, they may not, they may want you to figure it out as you work with them. And I think that is a great thing to keep in mind that some leaders may just expect you to know. But the other thing I was going to say, which gets kind of connected from what you said was I think the ability to read the room too and make note of the types of questions that are being asked either by your AVP or you may be in spaces with your VP or the president as you get into that director role. And so I think the ability to take note, be present, and I think that helps you build on what your AVP is going to expect because you’re going to see what types of questions that your AVP is getting from the president, from the vice president.
And so I know for me, when I’m in spaces with, especially the president of our university, if he starts sharing an idea, I’m writing those things down because I’m like, “This is going to be important and I need to start strategizing around this idea and how that’s going to work with Housing and Residence Life.” And so I try to help my directors understand they need to be doing the same. When I’m having my student engagement leadership meetings with all of my directors, I take notes too, but I help them, I want them to take notes and understand here is the goal, you’ve got to figure out how we reach the goal. And so, I do think if you have that relationship to where you can ask them, I think definitely asking them what they need, but also just understanding from your interactions with them, understanding how to read the room and make your own assumptions of what they may need.
Crystal Lay:
What I appreciated most about what you just shared is like you talked about taking notes and being observant. I know for our president, student success and face-to-face communication with students is very important. I also know that bring a problem and a solution is also important. And so, how do you start to think about, or even presence, like this thing is happening in my department, it’s a signature event. I should probably go 5 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour to be present because that also sends a signal not only to university leadership, it also sends a signal to our staff and our students. And so, I think that piece about, again, how are you taking notes? What are the buzzwords? What do you keep hearing over and over again? Because that tells you what our values are as an institution, and so really taking note of that.
Catherine LaRoche:
Exactly.
Crystal Lay:
All right. So I’m going to ask you a question about a wish maybe. So as you think about Housing and Residence Life leaders, is there something that you wish that they would tell you or show you or bring to your attention before you have to ask for it? What would make your life easier when you think about Residence Life and Housing?
Catherine LaRoche:
Oh my gosh, that’s a great question. I’m sure there’s a lot of different ways I can go with this, but I think, and maybe this is just the time we’re doing in Housing and Residence Life here on our campus, there is a lot of… We have a whole program called Elevate WKU. And so a lot of the questions that I’m constantly asked are around data because as we’re elevating the student experience and the housing experience, we are looking at so many data points to really form the decisions we need to make. So data is so important, and I think I have drilled that into my staff of, as I mentioned early, specifically occupancy. So thinking about when we open our applications in the late fall, we’re getting questions about, okay, how many applications do you have? How many students are participating in renewal? And so those are coming up.
And then thinking about student experience data, how many students are participating in our LLCs, how many students are going to our LLC programs, how many interactions are our RAs having with students, programming numbers, programming satisfaction survey numbers, thinking about conduct and student behavioral concerns. And so what are the trends we’re seeing? What student populations maybe are we seeing… If our student athletes keep forgetting their IDs, how do we work with athletics to make sure that their students have their IDs at all times? And so there’s a lot, those are the types of questions I’m constantly getting. And so those are the things that I think I have successfully drilled into my staff that when we sit down for our one-on-one or when we do a leadership meeting, go ahead and have that information ready for me because I’m going to ask. Or they know when my Thursdays are my high level meetings where I’m in meetings with the president, the vice president, the CFO, the provost.
And so they, Wednesday will send me, Wednesday during the day or Wednesday night, they will send me all of this data that I need just so I have it. Sometimes I bring it up, sometimes it’s in my back pocket if I get asked. And so same thing with facilities concerns. So I think data has, and maybe that’s just recently, but data is kind of really important. Those are the types of things I want beforehand. But at the same token, I talked a little bit too, what are the projects you’re working on? I’m going to need updates on those because I want to be able to share how we are truly elevating the housing experience, the student experience. And so those are some things that are probably more prevalent today for me, and those are the things that I really expect my staff to bring to me before I even ask for it.
Crystal Lay:
And it sounds like you’re also communicating, like you said, the when and the what. So that way, and sometimes chaos that can be housing, best plans, right? If I know that Catherine has this big meeting on Thursday, then I can plan my Wednesdays just to carve out X amount of time to make sure I’m getting that to you so you have that. And so I really like that. I had a meeting with my team earlier today and I said, “Okay, in the next two weeks, here are the meetings I’m having and here’s the information that is going to be asked of us.” And it was so neat because then they’re like, “Oh, I know what’s going on.” And they can see my calendar, but they were able to say, “Okay, there’s this cabinet presentation, there’s occupancy numbers, here’s some facility stuff.” And so that way they can plan too.
So I really like when we’re able to communicate that and support our teams in that way and ourselves too, so we’re not-
Catherine LaRoche:
Absolutely.
Crystal Lay:
… scrambling. So I have a fun question. So in Housing and Residential Life, we do all these programs, and so I’m wondering, do you have a favorite program where you’ve said, I don’t care what I’m doing, Residence Life, Housing, please always invite me and I’ll try my best to be at this event. Is there the signature favorite housing event for you?
Catherine LaRoche:
Oh my gosh, there’s so many great ones. So this is kind of cheating a little bit, I guess. So here at WKU, we have a 30-plus-year program master plan is what it’s called. And so it’s our version of Welcome Week, but where it’s different from other universities that I’ve been at, it’s not just the social engagement programs, but it’s also getting them into classrooms so that they can… It’s primarily for first year students and transfer students, but it’s getting them in the classroom before classes start so they understand where their classes are. They’re learning about topics like Title IX and resources on our campus. And so I love, it’s such an exhausting week. I think we have move-in during the day and then we’re going straight into Master Plan. And so it’s such an exhausting week, but I go to every single program that happens during that week.
And I’m telling you, they are back to back. Sometimes there’s multiple happening at the same time. And I remember when I first got here, I was intentional in going to it because I needed to learn WKU. I needed to know when I go talk to students or parents about Master Plan, I want to be able to say, “This is what your student’s going to do in this program.” But I know I don’t have to go to those things now, but I continue to go because I think I talked earlier about how you show up. I think for my staff, I know that they’re the ones who are at these late night programs, and I want them to see me there. I always check in on them to see, “How are you doing? Do you need a break? Can I take over?” And it’s also just an opportunity for me to meet students and talk to them because when you move up into these AVP roles, sometimes you have to create those student interactions on your own. And so this is one way that I do that.
But if I had to pick one event during that week, we have this event called Create a Creature. It’s a tradition now where it’s basically like Build-a-Bear essentially. And so it is my role to go down the super long line of students. There’s hundreds of students who are lined up, and my role is to hold all the animals and show them to the students so they can make a decision on what animal they want to stuff. And every year, the university photographer and my staff get a photo of me holding all the animals. And so that one is probably my favorite. I literally, my first year I did it, I had a student pick one. I was like, “What are you going to name your animal?” And she was like, “What’s your name?” And I said, “Catherine.” And she was like, “I’m going to name it Catherine because you helped me pick it out.”
Crystal Lay:
Oh, that is the best.
Catherine LaRoche:
It is. And so, that’s probably my favorite event. I think my second favorite, I know you didn’t ask, but my second favorite would be homecoming. I think because it supports all of my student engagement areas because they’re all playing some role in homecoming, especially my student activities team. And so I love, WKU does an amazing homecoming, and so that homecoming, it always butts up next to… It’s usually the same week as AIMHO. And so I literally will hop on the earliest flight to make it back for the MPHC step show, to the parade. I will be on the first flight out to make it here because it’s such a phenomenal program here.
Crystal Lay:
Oh, that sounds like so much fun. I’m buying my ticket. I’m going to come join you for homecoming.
Catherine LaRoche:
Yes, please come join me. Come to The Hill.
Crystal Lay:
Oh my gosh. Okay. I know you are a busy human, and so I want to transition us to our last question because I think we could just talk all day, Catherine. So if folks want to learn more about becoming an AVP with housing and residential life in their portfolio, And I know sometimes it can shift, the portfolio shift, but ultimately if they’re looking for that, is there a place you recommend they start looking or ways they can prepare if that’s a role that they may want to take on?
Catherine LaRoche:
That’s a great question. There are so many resources and I will even say probably resources I’m not even aware of, but I know NASPA does a lot. ACPA also has a lot of resources. I know a popular book that I see a lot of people who are either aspiring to be an AVP or are currently an AVP is the book AVP: Leading from the Unique Role of Associate Assistant Vice President for Student Affairs. And so that book I know is probably the first book that I think almost every AVP reads. However, to be honest, the best resources that I have taken advantage of is talking to AVPs on your campus. When I knew that I wanted to be in a university leadership position, when I knew that I want… I love housing so much, but when I knew that I still wanted to play a role with housing, but maybe in a more elevated role, I sat down with AVPs at ASU and really just wanted to hear their experience and their story.
And in one of your questions, you had mentioned that all AVP positions are different and that is truly the case. Every AV position is truly different. There are AVP positions that specifically are AVP of Housing Residence Life, or there’s some like mine who may have housing, student engagement, dining, campus rec and wellness, may have multiple areas under them. And so I truly have learned the most from those one-on-one conversations to going to meetings and being in spaces with different AVPs. And they can be on your campus or maybe you have colleagues across campus. That’s one of my favorite things about going to different conferences is really connecting with other AVPs and learning about what’s happening on their campus, how have they navigated challenges or what are some successes they’re seeing. And so that has also truly helped me to continue to grow in my role.
Crystal Lay:
Those are wonderful resources, and then also advice. And so go and find the folks on your campus and then think of the one or two questions that you want to have in your back pocket. That would be how I want to summarize what you just shared. The resources that you mentioned, we will add those to the show notes so folks can resource them or check those out. Thank you. Thank you so much, Catherine, for spending time with us today and sharing your wisdom. It’s been really great. All right.
Catherine LaRoche:
Awesome. Thank you, Crystal.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you. Thank you. So thank you everyone for checking us out. If you have an idea for a guest or a topic that you would like us to explore, please connect with us at Roompact and take care.
