In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, join Noah and Taylor Hogan as they talk about joy. Being in a caring field can take its toll. Residence Life staff are often requested to do more with less all while living where we work and being constantly surrounded by the work itself. Thus, it becomes crucial to find the joy to make the work and being people in the work sustainable. Join Noah and Taylor as they talk about finding joy, tell stories, and provide advice to Residence Life staff.
Guest: Taylor Hogan (she/they), Learning and Organizational Development Educator, Northwell Health (Previously Assistant Director of College Housing – Roth Community, Stony Brook University)
Host: Noah Montague
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Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Noah Montague:
Welcome back to Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. That said, as I often talk about and say to staff and students, being in a caring field in the way that we are can and does take its toll. It’s crucial for residence life staff and student affairs staff in general to be thinking about how to center joy in their work, and that it impacts how we show up, how we succeed, how we be people in the spaces that we occupy and the things that we’re doing in the field that we’re in.
Following the Great Resignation as well, finding joy becomes even more important in so many different ways. I’m glad you’re laughing already, because I’m sure it’s going to come up in talking about the Great Resignation because it was real and it happened and it is continuing to happen as well. But with that and thinking about what’s been happening in our field, finding that joy becomes even more important of a conversation. We live where we work, we’re immersed in it constantly. What does that joy look like and how do we center it? Well, that is exactly what we’re going to be talking about today.
So without any further ado, I’m going to turn it over to my lovely guest to allow them to introduce themselves to you all today.
Taylor Hogan:
Hi, everyone. My name is Taylor Hogan. My pronouns are she/they. I spent the better part of almost a decade working at a tier one research institution out on Long Island, where I was a residence hall director as well as an assistant director of college housing, where I ran an area of about 1,000 students with five professional staff underneath me. And I think that joy is the most important thing to making the work sustainable in any way, shape, or form.
Noah Montague:
Yeah, I have to agree. And it’s kind of why we’re here to begin with, to be talking about it. But I think that with that, Taylor, getting into this idea of, to your own point, joy being the thing that makes our work the most sustainable, and you spending such a large part of your career in student affairs, in residence life. What does it even mean? What does joy at work mean to you and why are we even talking about it today? Why are we spending this episode talking about joy?
Taylor Hogan:
So, I think we’re spending this episode talking about joy because something that I discovered through the spans of my life is that joy is actually the only thing that keeps us going. Whether it is present joy or hopes for future joy or reminiscing on past joy, finding those little moments that remind you that there is light makes it so much more worthwhile to keep doing what you’re doing. I think for me, joy in the workplace, I think for a lot of people, it’s always, remember your why. I know why I do what I do, sometimes my why is not enough. And for me, throughout my roles changing, throughout… not to throw out the big C word, but I was a residence hall director during COVID and navigating what all of that looked like, I think-
Noah Montague:
And finding joy then was a whole different conversation.
Taylor Hogan:
Right, right, right. I think that the reason why it’s so important to me is because in the context of the world in which we live, the only thing that makes it worth it is joy. And sometimes you are in a position where you can find joy in the actual work, the tangible work that you’re doing, and sometimes it’s in the environment that you’re in, and sometimes it’s in something that’s completely unrelated to work, but it makes the work okay. And so I’ve sat in all three of those pieces throughout my time in my roles, and I think the reason why it’s important to find joy in your work is because no one wants to work. At the end of the day, I think everyone societally in whatever, what have you, would be so much happier doing things that they love to do because they love to do it and not because they have to do it. And so a lot of my philosophy in the work that I was doing was, what can I find in this that makes me love it because I love it, not because I have to do it?
Noah Montague:
Yeah. I think that for me is pretty similar in, where can I find the parts of this that I do love? And I think that that connection between love and joy is so interesting. And of course, not romantic love and not the way that we’ve been conditioned to talk about love, but there are parts of what I do that I legitimately love doing. And that might be at my institution, we do one-on-ones with students regularly. So, I’m sitting down and getting to know students every single day. And that is joyous for me because that is my why and it’s an easier place to connect the why into the work in a role in which you aren’t regularly doing that why. But it’s also like you have to move up and you have to go for the next thing. And it’s very easy to forget one’s why in such a student-centered space. So I love that point of bringing up the, what do we do when our why isn’t enough, part of this conversation because it’s allowed to be and it’s allowed to become that.
But I think for me, trying to focus on those areas, it’s better sometimes than others in, okay, this is a day where I have a ton of admin work and I don’t feel like I’m doing the things that bring me joy anymore. And that gets back to, okay, what am I doing outside of work? What am I doing in this space? Where am I finding that joy elsewhere? And I think that can be hard when you live where you work.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes.
Noah Montague:
And especially with how common it is in residence life to move around, rebuilding a life and rebuilding a situation and finding that joy in a place that you don’t know with people you don’t know, it becomes very easy to put all of that into the job. And I don’t think that’s fair either-
Taylor Hogan:
No.
Noah Montague:
… to do that. And it results in a lot of that loss of joy to me from what I’ve seen.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes.
Noah Montague:
But thinking about those difficulties and difficult moments, what does it look like to experience joy, in your opinion, during a difficult moment, during a difficult semester? Is that even possible? And what does that look like?
Taylor Hogan:
It 1,000% is possible. It’s, you have to remember that you are more than the work that you do. That’s the biggest thing, and that’s what got me through a relatively difficult semester when I had first… So I had been an assistant director in two different areas. And when I moved to my first area, there were a lot… The demographic of students was different, so I worked with graduate students in my first area and then undergraduate students in my second. And of course, the demographic of students is different, but how different they were and the things that they were concerned about, night and day. And some of the issues that I’d had in my previous area were significantly more manageable than the ones in the undergraduate area.
And so making that transition put me in a position where I sat there and went, “Do I actually know what I’m doing? I’ve been doing this for a year and a half now. Do I know? Do I? Because I don’t really know if I do.” And I think that the way that you find joy even through the difficult student interactions or even difficult staff interactions is, you make each moment that is joy bigger than what it is. Because it could have been a simple conversation that I had with one of my hall directors, it was their one-on-one and they made some funny comment. I spent the rest of the week talking about how funny that comment was. It was completely irrelevant to anything.
Noah Montague:
Oh, I still talk about funny things that my staff said months ago.
Taylor Hogan:
Right. And that’s, when you remember that you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to have experienced that funny moment if you weren’t sitting in that position of your job, then you’re like, “Oh, okay. Yeah, I could do this.”
Noah Montague:
For sure.
Taylor Hogan:
Because there will always be more moments like that. And so that’s how you get through the difficult times, is knowing that everything is temporary, and if you can make it through right now, you can make it through the next right now.
Noah Montague:
Sure. I completely agree, for one. And I love that you’re talking about this idea of community and connection being the thing that promotes that joy and keeps it going in that, oh no, I think about often the… And that they stick with us and it’s important to reflect and think about the bad things that happened because anything that can happen to a human being can happen while they’re living in a residence hall, so we’re going to deal with those things.
Taylor Hogan:
Right.
Noah Montague:
But I also know that talking to my staff and sitting with them and being with them is how I found the joy in those situations. And even just getting to reflect together and be like, “That was bad.” And that mattered to me, and that kept the comfort, that kept the connection, and that did inspire some joy in, okay, I still want to do this. And I think that’s the lens at which I’m approaching this conversation related to joy, is I still enjoy it, I still want to do this thing that I’m doing. But of course it’s possible during a difficult moment. If anything, I think those difficult moments, to your own point, when something joyous does happen, it’s easier to focus on that thing and it’s easier to make that, to your own point again, bigger or maybe more meaningful than it was previously. But yeah, no, I really like that answer. I think that fits exactly. But yeah, thank you for that.
I think getting then into, which we’ve already spoke to a little bit now, this idea of joy and where it comes from and how we promote it. But what gets in the way of joy at work and residence life?
Taylor Hogan:
I think the biggest thing for me that got in the way of my joy and then directed me in the life path that I ended up taking is the weight that was put on me by others and myself to reach impossible expectations when I’m just a person.
I think something that in my last year in residence life, I had to remind myself, I am just a person and that we are just people working in the business of people and that there are going to be times that we don’t have the answer. And even if that wasn’t externally put on me, me internally blaming myself for not having the answer is what would get in the way of me being able to find joy. And having to remind myself that, again, this is a moment, it’s not forever. Sometimes that reminder isn’t loud enough for how severe a situation can be and for what the aftermath of said situations are, especially if those situations spiral out of control before they even land on your desk. And I think that is the biggest thing and something that I really struggled with in trying to maximize my joy is the ways in which I would be trying to find it, I didn’t have the brain space for because there were so many other things that were on my plate.
Now, when I started my role as an assistant director, there was always a concern about my administrative strengths because I’m a very people person, but don’t ask me to do a budget. Right? But to the point that we were talking about before, the way I found joy in doing a budget is, I love spending other people’s money. Right? But, and so it’s like, okay, but in order for me to spend other people’s money, I have to make sure I have the money to spend, so I have to do that budget. Right? And so, I was able to cultivate joy there. But when it was a scenario that because of the gravity of a situation, people, myself included, are looking to me like, “Why didn’t you have the answer for this?” That gets in the way of you being able to say, “Okay, right…” there’s plenty of reasons why I didn’t have the answer for it. Probably because that student decided to tell their parent who decided to tell, I don’t know, the president of SUNY as opposed to telling their RA-
Noah Montague:
Me.
Taylor Hogan:
… who would’ve told me, and it would’ve gone faster. Right?
Noah Montague:
Yep.
Taylor Hogan:
That thing that gets in the way is just this expectation of work that may not be able to come to fruition because at the end of the day, we’re just people. And one thing I always used to say, and I still say this, is, “You cannot do 100% of the things at 100% capacity 100% of the time.”
Noah Montague:
You can’t. You can’t possibly.
Taylor Hogan:
And the expectation to do that is something that prevents joy from being able to seep its way through.
Noah Montague:
Yeah. No, I completely agree. I think that you got me thinking about a lot of different things, but fascinatingly, this idea that what can promote joy is other people and what can hinder joy is other people. And I think that that is really reigning true for me in this moment.
So I recently just got a promotion, which is super-duper exciting.
Taylor Hogan:
Exciting, yes.
Noah Montague:
And something you mentioned a little bit ago was that you moved from one population of students to another population of students. And I am going from a population of students that gave me so much joy. I was working with upper class students, majority students of color, a lot of LGBTQ students, and low-income population, in a leadership program. So I was getting to create an experience for students that maybe had never seen themself as leaders before and help them towards that identity being even a little bit more salient in leadership by the end of that time. And now, I’m moving to first year military students.
Taylor Hogan:
Fascinating.
Noah Montague:
And a few other populations as well, but that one is sticking with me. And that is, of course, something that I’m excited about and it’s a new opportunity and it’s like, okay, I’m going to work with a new population, cool. And it’s a decision that was made by somebody that was not me, and my joy is changing in that space and it’s something that I’m actively thinking about and what that is looking like. And it’s a very new population that I don’t have experience with. And two, something that you talked about in this nature of the imposter syndrome of it all impacting joy. And do I even know what I’m talking about? I haven’t worked with a first year student in five years. Do I even know how to help them schedule their classes? And I don’t. I have to go back and relearn how to do that. And that’s such an interesting thing, because I’m like, I’ve been doing this for a minute now at the same school, and there are things that I don’t remember anymore.
And I think that is the expectation to do it all constantly, I do think impacts joy. And it makes residence life professionals, student affairs professionals feel like we don’t know what we’re doing if we don’t know one thing, which then spirals and spirals and is a bigger thing than it’s supposed to be. And to the point where if they just told me it would be a lot smaller, rather than my institution has a large parent relationship. So parents have our individual hall numbers and can do all kinds of stuff with that. And we love supporting the parents. And also, when a student complains to their parent and the parent calls the Dean of Student’s Office who then calls me and I had no idea there was a problem, that impacts my joy.
Taylor Hogan:
For sure.
Noah Montague:
In so many ways because it’s, “Did you not feel comfortable coming to me? Is there a reason you didn’t come to me? Is it a bigger problem than it is? Is it a smaller problem than it is? What is actually going on?” And it limits the ability to just have that one-on-one conversation to help, which is why we’re in the field to begin with. I think that the expectation that gets placed on residence life staff and student affairs staff to be able to do it all is not fair and does limit that joy.
Taylor Hogan:
It does.
Noah Montague:
It really does.
Taylor Hogan:
It does.
Noah Montague:
But we’re going to see how this new population goes. I think it’s going to be great, I’m excited.
Taylor Hogan:
Yeah, I think it will be too.
Noah Montague:
But it also is something very new that is affecting that imposter syndrome, which then does affect that joy in this space. So I think that, I don’t know, it’s interesting to think about, and I’m excited about it, and I’m looking forward to being able to talk about it more once it starts.
But I think that with that, and you’ve kind of insinuated into this a little bit, but you did make the decision to leave residence life and to leave student affairs as a whole. And I’d be curious to hear what reflection, a reflection that you might have on the work as a whole, having made that decision.
Taylor Hogan:
I am eternally grateful for every opportunity that I had in my experience in student affairs, whether it’s through grad school or my role as a hall director or my role as an assistant director, because it really did shape how I’ve approached my new work and how I approach being a person, like I said, with other people. I think that what makes me good in my role now is that I care. And I think that what I’ve discovered in switching over into a more corporate setting is that people very much so work just for the sake of working. And I go, “No, no, no, no, no. No, we don’t have to work just to work. We can do things that are going to make the work that we do fun, or we can do things that are going to make us feel proud of the work that we’re doing. We don’t have to just show up, clock in, twiddle our thumbs, and leave.”
Noah Montague:
The amount of students I’ve talked to that I’m like, “You’re allowed to like your job.”
Taylor Hogan:
Right. I promise. I promise you can like it.
Noah Montague:
And that feels like an out of stratosphere statement for some of the students I’m working with, because they are sure that they’re going to work for 30 years and hate every minute of it. But that’s what they’ve been expected to think, is what it’s going to be.
Taylor Hogan:
Right, right. And so I think that the biggest thing that I’ve learned about the job itself and about the field in general is that, and we know this, but it is so important to take a minute and really do a self-evaluation on your bandwidth. I had gotten to the point, as we were talking about a little bit ago before we started, I experienced so many things. Every single trope of a working experience that you could probably experience, I did in my time at the institution. And I wouldn’t say I left too much later than I probably should have, professionally, but I think I left a little bit later than my spirit should have. And so, I had to do a lot of work in the last year because I’ve only been at my new job for a year.
What I’ve noticed in the last year of me leaving is how much of ourselves we lose in this work because it is such outward pouring work. And of course, we can talk at length about, how do you pour back into yourself? But I don’t really know how much of a window there actually is to pour into yourself in this work because there’s always the expectation that you are giving more. That you can start off with a teacup and the expectation is a gallon. You can finally be in a position where you can fill yourself up with a gallon, they’re asking for a bathtub. Right?
Noah Montague:
Yeah.
Taylor Hogan:
And so, it’s if you are comfortable and can find that joy in that cyclical nature of always just feeling a little bit like you’re never going to actually catch up, then you can keep doing it and it’s a vibe. And I felt like that probably for about two years before I even was thinking about leaving. For probably for about two years, I was like, “I’m actually really tired and really stressed, but I could do this. I can do this. This is a life I can continue to lead.” And I think in me leaving, I realized that I get to know more about myself now. And I think what’s really exciting is that I wouldn’t have the lens to analyze where I could be the best version of myself if I didn’t learn how to analyze other people through all the work that I did.
Noah Montague:
Yeah. Something that one of my mentors told me recently that I think is going to stick with me for a long time is, my capacity is different than what I can handle.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes, yes.
Noah Montague:
And I think that was a really important thing for me to hear. It was an important thing to be thinking about, because it truly was. I can do it, I can do it. The work will get done. It’ll all happen, it’ll get done. And can I handle that?
Taylor Hogan:
Yes.
Noah Montague:
And it’s a give and take, and it’s learning that. I think that’s such a great piece of advice because it is understanding your own boundaries. We live where we work. We have to be thinking about boundaries. And the amount of professionals that I see who just aren’t, who, because they care so deeply. Like I’ve seen professionals in their office doing work until 10:00 PM, regularly. I’m like, “Let’s go home. Go do something for yourself.” And that’s easier said than done in a lot of spaces-
Taylor Hogan:
100%.
Noah Montague:
Because we care.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes.
Noah Montague:
Because we get into this field because we care. And the cup is empty and it’s allowed to be empty.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes. What I will say, and I will add this.
Noah Montague:
Please.
Taylor Hogan:
I will say, I’m very grateful to the institution for allowing me to take this window. I had… and-
Noah Montague:
For sure.
Taylor Hogan:
… it’s something that I don’t necessarily remember, but a year before I left, I took a leave of absence for about a month because I had some personal life things happen and I went, hey, crazy. I actually can’t do the work and feel like this at the same time. And-
Noah Montague:
I’m glad you were able to say that.
Taylor Hogan:
Yeah. What I will say is that it was told to me. And again, I’m very grateful to the leadership who had known me for about six years at that point, look at me and go, “No, you actually need to go. We know the work you’re capable of doing, and you are not anywhere near close to doing it, and you need to take the time to go do that.” So again, very grateful to have had that experience, because what I think it also did is it really added to my frame of reference as a supervisor and also adds to my frame of reference as a person, that sometimes you do need to take a step back and you can’t push yourself into it working. Sometimes you do actually need to pull back.
But in taking that time, realizing that I was sitting there thinking, why do I not have the capacity for this? And again, it’s because I’m a person who’s going through a really hard life thing. And this is the point that I was going to make, is to the point of, take your vacation. The overarching theme, take the vacation.
Noah Montague:
Take the vacation.
Taylor Hogan:
Because I left with so much time because my frame of reference was always, well, I’m not doing anything else. Right? I don’t really need to go anywhere. I have my cat, I have my life. I could just be here, I could just go to work. What am I doing? And I feel like I missed out on a lot of opportunity to reconnect with myself because I was so afraid about what I would end up coming back to when I came back. That was a big thing.
I think that I probably would’ve been able to sustain a… Because I’m the type of person where I go all in with something. Right? I have a theater degree. I started doing performance stuff when I was six, and I went to performing arts high school, and I was like, “Theater, theater, theater, theater, theater,” until I was like, “I’m not going to make any money doing this.” And so then I went into higher ed and so I was like, “Oh, I can do this for the rest of my life.” So that was always the frame of reference, that I think I would’ve been able to make it last longer if I had actually taken the time to be like, no, also be a person too because the work will be there. It is always going to be there. What is not always going to be there is you. And you cannot go back on the time that you don’t put into yourself, so.
Noah Montague:
For sure. Funnily enough, that was a conversation I had with somebody yesterday, was, the goal of our work should be that the students will be okay without us.
Taylor Hogan:
Yes, Yes.
Noah Montague:
And because it was a conversation about my promotion and moving on and no longer running that leadership program that I ran for five years. And it was hard to move on, but my goal should be that it could be successful without me, because I’m not going to be here forever. This program is 40 years old and I’ve run it for five. It’s been successful for 35 without me, it needs to be able to do that again. And I think that going into the work that we do with that as the goal, that the students need to be successful and able to do the things without us, that is the job. And I think that helps me, funnily enough, that helps me with the joy as well in that now I can be confident this human is going to be okay and they don’t need me anymore. And I think that’s a cool part of what we get to do.
But I guess that you’ve kind of spoken to some advice that you might give already, and we’re also talking a little bit about supervision and about guidance, but what might be something for the supervisors listening? What can supervisors do to cultivate joy on their team? And what is their role within cultivating that joy?
Taylor Hogan:
So, I think it is so important. This is a hill that I will die on. It is so important for supervisors to be cultivating joy on their team. The nature of higher education is that we are working with a young demographic of people, not necessarily just our students, our professional staff are young as well. Regardless of the institution type, unless there’s somebody who have been at the institution for 20, 30 years, the nature of the work is still young.
Young is joy. You need to be learning about the things that your staff likes. And you don’t necessarily always have to incorporate every single thing, but I think that something, I know my staff loved working with me because I saw them as people. And a lot of our time was spent just being people together and going, okay, okay, okay, okay. We’ve had so many funds. How do we take that and then put it into the work? I think if you are somebody who supervises a full team and you’re having your weekly, biweekly, monthly staff meetings, it is so important to give them the opportunity to be themselves. And of course, we’re in a professional setting, but not to go into the whole professionalism is rooted in white supremacy thing, but you can-
Noah Montague:
We could.
Taylor Hogan:
But then we’d be here for a very long time.
Noah Montague:
Yes, we would.
Taylor Hogan:
But it is okay to let people sprinkle in who they are outside of work at work. If they say some off-kilter crazy little stuff, then you could be like, “Hey, so that probably wasn’t cool and let’s talk about why that’s not a window you would say that professionally,” especially if they’re new to being a professional. But if there’s somebody who’s been in their role three or four years, let them be a person.
One of my favorites is one of my hall directors who I worked with him when I was first an interim assistant director. He loves to make food. He is a baker, he is a chef, he does everything. Any opportunity that he wanted to bring a treat to a staff meeting, “Bring it, bring it, make me a food. A, because I love to eat. B, because that gives you the opportunity to be you at work. We don’t work in the business of food. We don’t work in the dining halls. Right? But if that is how you get to express who you are, then do that.” Right?
I supervised someone who was a mom, is a mom, and that is a really important part of her identity and providing her the opportunity to talk about her children at work, which I know in some spaces seems kind of taboo, let her feel comfortable enough to do the work she needs to do. And so, I think the way that you cultivate joy is just reminding yourself and your staff that they are people and that this is a job. And that ideally, we are in a space where we don’t need to work to live and live to work. We can just work because it’s something we get to do and not have to do. And your position as a supervisor can help people feel like that, so they like doing what they do.
Noah Montague:
For sure. And I think it almost feels so basic to, hey, get to know your team. And what an unfortunate space that we’re in, that that isn’t the norm. But I think about ways that I’ve done that and I’ve watched how much it mattered to the people that I’m supervising. I would have a one-on-one with one of my staff members, and he would talk about his family for 40 minutes of the hour we had together, because that mattered so much to him. And it became him giving me an update on his grandma and an update on his brother who was in the military and an update on his sister who’s starting high school. And then I would ask, be like, “Oh, how’s your grandma doing? I know that she fell last week,” or, “How is this happening? How is your family?” And I watched that make him feel safer with me. I watched, live. I watched how much that mattered, which then contributed to him being successful in work, which contributed to him wanting to be there.
And I think about that often. I still ask him about his family. We’ll text every so often and just catch up with it. But I think that those interactions matter so much in a supervision space, regardless of who you’re supervising and how that’s going about.
But I guess, Taylor, to wrap us up, and we’ve already spoken to a lot of advice already, but what might be one last quick piece of advice that you might give to somebody who feels like they’re losing that joy in the work a little bit?
Taylor Hogan:
Not to be all 1992 animated movie about African animals about it, but remember who you are. Literally remember who you are. You were a person before this job. You are a person in this job, and you will be a person after this job. If you feel like you have lost the joy, re-find things that make you feel good about yourself. I changed the entire trajectory of my life because I applied for a promotion and didn’t get it, and I decided to join a dance company in Queens. Does that mean that I was driving very, very far multiple times a week? Yes, but that company changed my life and it reconnected me to something that I had lost. And that was that external piece of joy that I needed to make work keep going.
And so if you’re really not in a position to find what you need at work, remember that you are a person holistically who can find joy in other spaces. And you can find joy in who you are as a person in the things that you like to do, and then you can find that joy at work again. And it’s also okay to try new things.
Noah Montague:
I would completely agree. And just the only thing I would add, which is just a different way of phrasing what you said, but finding the things that make you feel like you-
Taylor Hogan:
Yes, yes.
Noah Montague:
… in the spaces that you’re occupying. And that might be work, that might be a dance class. I rollerskate on usually once a week I try to go roller skating when I can. I haven’t been in a little bit, but I’m trying to get back into it as well. But finding that joy, whether it be in the work, out of the work, you live there, so find that joy in what it is.
It might be decorating your apartment. The amount of joy I’ve found in having plants in my home was a mess. And I have colleagues who move in with a suitcase and never put something on the wall. I’m like, “How are we going to help students feel at home here if we’re not making it that…” And that’s a whole different conversation.
Taylor Hogan:
Right, right, right. That’s part two, that’s part two.
Noah Montague:
That’s part two, maybe we’ll do that. But find the things that make you feel like you, would be the last piece of advice that I give, but.
Taylor Hogan:
For sure.
Noah Montague:
That about wraps us up today. Taylor, again, thank you for joining me. I hope you had fun.
Taylor Hogan:
So much fun.
Noah Montague:
And thank you all for joining us on this episode of ResEdChat. If you have an idea or a topic or a person that you would like us to have on the show, please let us know by reaching out to Roompact. But keep chasing that joy, y’all. I’ll see you next time. Bye.
