In this final episode of the year, guest host Dustin Ramsdell speaks with Tamarah Humphreys about making lateral moves in your career. She details the reasons why someone might make these sideways pivots, and what to expect when they might occur. Tamarah shares reflections of her own experience making these transitions, and gives advice for how best to navigate them.
Guest: Tamarah Humphreys (she/her), Community Director, University of St. Thomas
Host: Dustin Ramsdell, Independent Higher EdTech Content Creator
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Transcript:
Dustin Ramsdell:
Welcome back, everyone, to Roompact’s ResEd Chat podcast. If you’re new to the show, every episode, our team of hosts brings you timely discussions on a variety of topics of interest to higher professionals who work in and with university housing, residence life, residential education. This episode is another in our ongoing annual series where we like to invite in our blogging team, to help our audience get to know them a little bit better and go a little bit deeper on some of the topics that they are writing about.
We’re excited to have you kick things off here. As we usually do, briefly introduce yourself and give us an overview of your background and then we’ll get into the rest of our conversation, which will focus on lateral moves within the profession, which I think is a very interesting topic.
Tamarah Humphreys:
Thank you. Hello, my name is Tamarah Humphreys. I use she/her/hers pronouns. I currently work at a university in the state of Minnesota, and I serve as a community director. I’ve been on the blogging team this year focused on RAs, resident advisors, giving them helpful advice and tidbits to successfully manage their jobs as student staff members.
A little bit about me, I have worked at four universities since I graduated with my master’s degree from Minnesota State University, Mankato. My degree is in counseling, student personnel, college student affairs. Finished my degree in the year of 2020, which you can imagine was an interesting time to finish a degree in higher education and then go into working in higher ed. We’ll talk about it a little bit more as the podcast goes on today, but about lateral moves and why I made them and how they happened, and how they might serve people. Really just excited to get to be chatting here today about that and being a part of this blogging cohort with Roompact.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I always appreciate I get the duty to interview all of the bloggers, and it’s such a great, diverse team and a lot of folks that have never been interviewed on a podcast before, which is fun as well, and bring a variety of perspectives and backgrounds and everything. If you want to take us back, we’re recording this in October. You’ve gone through most of this calendar year already, writing and everything, but thinking back to what inspired you to join in the first place, to apply and go on this journey, what was that motivation? What drew you to the opportunity?
Tamarah Humphreys:
I’ve worked at a few schools that use Roompact as a service, so I was already aware of the blog posts through that. Then also, just I enjoy writing. I think I’m a pretty creative person. In my free time, I’m always making art and doing creative-type things. For me, when the opportunity came about, I thought, “Hey, why not give it a shot and see what happens?”
Then I really liked this blog in particular because it focused on serving the residence advisors, which are the folks that I’ve been supervising in my role already. Like I said, there’s some things. It’s just a chance for me as a creative outlet, but then for serving the RAs, talk about just how. It’s a larger conversation, about things that they may be talking with their direct supervisor about some of these things, but maybe not.
I know the most popular blog post that I’ve written this year was called, Help, I Want to Date A Fellow RA.” There’s really nothing out there on that specific topic. Yet as a supervisor, I know that this is something that has come up every single year where I’ve been a supervisor. My colleagues have been talking about, “Oh, this RA wants to go out with this RA and they’re super nervous,” or, “They didn’t tell me about it nd now I as a supervisor am frustrated that I didn’t know this dynamic was going on on my team.” I thought, hey, why don’t I write about that because people probably feel like they’re all alone in this, because they may be the only person on their team of eight people who’s crushing on another RA, but actually across the board, this is something that happens often.
Most of our resident advisors are in that 18-to-24-year-old range, where they are dating and getting to know people and things like that. It’s like, but yeah, you don’t just talk about that all the time, and you feel like you’re on an island by yourself thinking about these things. As a blog writer, I’m able to just go into some of those things that maybe you don’t talk about every day or you’re embarrassed to talk about with your supervisor, and try to give a little guidance to some of the resident advisors. Yeah, just one example of something that I got to explore through the blog post, and try to hopefully offer some good guidance to the young folks that we get to supervise in their RA role.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. That just makes me so happy that that’s the most popular one. It’s just that very real talk thing versus on one hand, it’s nice when everybody, in a sense, dogpiles and just reiterates or talks about the same thing, because certain things bear repeating and it’s nice to be like, “Wow, there is a whole zeitgeist happening about this thing. Everybody’s talking about it and providing their commentary on it.” Then when you find this lane of like, “Wow, I don’t think anybody’s really written about RAs dating each other and there’s a lot of dynamics there,” it’s clearly touching a nerve and really resonating with people. I’m sure that there’s going to be a romance novel or something coming out about RAs dating or something out there now. Are they equipped with the right mindset and frame for this?
I’ve really appreciated just getting to witness on the sidelines, because there’s other folks here on the podcasting team that are bringing a similar flavor to the content created here, but there’s just so much value I think in the consistent, quality content that we’re putting out through the variety of mediums and bringing just a lot of, again, just diverse, unique, different perspectives. It’s not just trying to keep rehashing and maybe just updating things. It’s really encouraging the distinct audiences, certainly of RAs and of professional staff, and just all the different interests and things like that that can be brought to the fore through content and everything.
I think I’ve just seen content creators, especially on TikTok for whatever reason, where they’ll share about like, “Hey, does anybody else do this weird, quirky habit thing?” It’s like, “Hey, cool. I’m not the only one. I see that content and I feel very seen.” I think that’s just a great thing that you’re doing there, putting it in a similar thing where somebody feels very seen through that content and is getting the support they need to go about that the right way.
Now we’ll just move on, pivot here to the topic of this episode, lateral moves. Just in case folks aren’t aware, maybe if you want to give just a super succinct definition of what we’re meaning when we say lateral moves, but just starting with that in the broader perspective from your experience, what are some reflections on lateral moves you or others that you know have made in the past?
Tamarah Humphreys:
For a definition of what a lateral move is, it’s essentially switching jobs, but not necessarily seeing an increase in pay or an increase in responsibilities. For example, in my role, though it is my fourth position that I’ve held, it’s still an entry-level role. Yes, you need to have a degree and maybe my past experience has helped me get these roles, but it’s still at that entry level. It’s essentially like having that same sort of … it might have the same pay. It might be similar in terms of tasks that you’re completing. It’s not considered a step up in terms of becoming a mid-level position or something like that. Or you could be at a mid-level position and then going into another mid-level position, right?
When I say lateral move, what I’m talking about is going from one position to another position of the same level. It could be at the same university, though in my case, it has always been at a different university. All my positions have been community director-type roles where I get to supervise resident advisors, but it could look like a variety of things. Sometimes a lateral move too can be switching within the same university, so going from working in residence life in an entry-level role to then working in career services in an entry-level role. That would also constitute a lateral move. I thought it would be interesting just to talk about it a little bit, because I never expected to make any lateral moves in my career, and then here I am in five and a half years making four lateral moves, just because that’s where life took me.
Dustin Ramsdell:
I do think this is really important to talk about, because it is that notion where I can say I’ve had the same thoughts around like, “Oh, I think I’m supposed to do my career a certain way.” It’s not maybe talked about a lot, but there is often some very good motivating reasons for why people do these things, and I appreciate it. This is something that I think is time well spent to explore. I’m sure, yeah, just especially within the past five years, folks have had to make decisions for a variety of reasons that have caused them to make lateral moves and things. I appreciate you giving that general context, but if you want to just jump into your reflections about your journey and maybe other folks again who have made either similar moves, or just other examples of these lateral moves and what was the journey the folks went on.
Tamarah Humphreys:
Yeah, what is the purpose of a lateral move? For some folks, it might be to gain a specific skill by moving to another position. For some people, it could be a change of pace. For example, in one role that I was at, I was doing apartment-style housing, and then I just wanted to change the pace and ended up going into traditional first-year housing. Really at the center of why I had those lateral moves, it was because of personal life needs, although that’s not always the case. My first position, I had applied to 60 jobs. It was 2020, those jobs kind of got canceled, and then I got hired into a job at my alma mater because they were like, “Hey, we need a temporary person for this 10-month position.” I was like, “Yeah, that sounds great. I need a job.”
Sometimes that’s the circumstance, right? We all have to navigate and do what is right for us. It’s interesting because when I was in school, so from 2018 to 2020, all the literature was talking about like, “Your first job, you should stay there for three to five years.” That was pretty much a consistent consensus. It was three to five years is what you wanted to do. I don’t necessarily think that’s always the case anymore.
Just the other day … and I’m going to pull this up really quick … there’s this Residence Life Facebook group and people will just post all kinds of different things, but someone asked the question, “Is two years an acceptable amount of time to stay in a position? I originally wanted to spend three to five years at this job,” again, that’s what the literature from before 2020 says to do, “but I’m really struggling with the rural location of the school. Everyone is either a college student or a retiree, making it difficult to develop a social life or find a support system outside of my work. I love the job, but it really feels like I’m a residence life coordinator and nothing else.” When they were talking about that, it goes right into what I’m thinking about, is like, yeah, what is acceptable, and when can you take that lateral step into something else?
The feedback that the person shared … that people shared with them, rather … someone said, “The acceptable amount of time to stay in a position is as long as the position is still a good fit for you and you’re a good fit for it.” Someone else said, “Yeah, it doesn’t matter as much anymore, especially in the earlier years.” Another person said, like my colleagues have said, “The amount of time doesn’t really matter. Ask yourself if you’re happy, are your needs being met, and have you accomplished what you want out of the position.” Someone else chimed in and said, “I remember when two years was the norm for an entry-level role.” That can be the case, right? There’s no clear-cut answer to all of this.
One person even said, “It doesn’t really matter anymore. I’ve seen people jump jobs every year. Sometimes things, places, people, jobs, just don’t fit. Why torture yourself by staying in a place that you don’t want to be, because society made up an arbitrary rule?” That’s some of the things that just other folks have been saying that I just saw on Saturday. It is something that comes up pretty often when folks are thinking about if they should leave their current role or if they should stay.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Well, yeah. Just to jump in there, because I think we often don’t talk about the other side of this, which it’s an idea of people will just squat on a job, sometimes an entry-level one, and be like, “I’ve been here for 10 years in this job.” It’s like, you’re depriving it from somebody else. I’ve seen some institutions where they put a limit. A community director is like, “You can only be in this for five years max. We are very explicit about trying to build a plan for you,” and that sort of thing. It’s really interesting, the dynamics where we get almost entirely the focus on, “We’ve gotta stay there for at least this many years, or else it’s going to be like this scarlet letter and you’re going to be blacklisted,” and all these things, but then we don’t talk about people overstaying their welcome. I think it’s interesting. It’s almost like folklore, of like, “You have to stay for this much time or else,” or whatever. It’s like, who came up with this? I don’t know. It’s all arbitrary.
Tamarah Humphreys:
Well, and as I look at my own career, okay, why did I leave my second job, which was at the University of Colorado Boulder? I enjoyed the work I was getting to do, and I was in my third year working there and I knew I had a four-year contract, and my spouse got a job in another state. Okay, why would I do long distance with my spouse if I know I only have this job for one more year? That is part of why that I ended up switching. The employer has to think about who they’re employing and what that is offering for the students, but then we as the employee also need to think about, okay, what’s right for us and how do we do the right thing for ourselves. It’s like both of those things coexisting and figuring out how to work together.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I appreciate just to really capture what you’re saying, because I think it’s important to think about the spectrum even within this conversation of like, okay, you are considering making a lateral move. It can be even within the same institution. That’s one area. It could be the dynamics of like, I want … I think you can see that, where it’s like, okay, explicitly you are a community director, but there is one where it’s like technically a community is bigger or larger than somebody else’s, or it’s apartment style versus traditional or suites or whatever. That could be something where it’s like that technically is a lateral move and a pretty modest one, but if it’s like you’re looking for one thing or another, that is a version of this.
Or within the same institution, like you’re saying, “I want to go work at career services. That’s just really meaningful to me. I’ve always been interested in it, but this was a great opportunity and I’ve learned a lot from it,” and you want to make that move. Obviously it’s going to be a little bit different because there’s not going to be so many bureaucratic paperwork things, because it’s still an employee at the same institution, just got a different title. Then yeah, you could do at a completely different institution, similar role, completely different institution, different role, that sort of thing.
Then there’s going to be a lot of things where it’s like, are you moving all the way across the country or just down the road or that sort of thing, or certainly dynamics of did you have an in-hall apartment and now you’re moving off campus and whatever, and that’s implicit in your lateral move. I think of all those precipitating factors that you said are really important, of lifestyle and growth opportunities or all those sort of things.
I think if you’re getting maybe this sense, this is on your mind, you’re thinking that you might want to pursue a lateral move, are there certain variables that you think folks should consider? I guess I think certainly it would maybe matter where on the spectrum. What flavor of a lateral move somebody might be making could certainly inform this, but just any commentary that you want to make on that of like, okay, before you start treading down a path, what are some things that maybe folks should consider and maybe prepare for?
Tamarah Humphreys:
I think thinking about the goal of why you want to make that lateral move is important, right? If it’s the institution you’re at, what kind of fit is it? Is there a different type of fit you’re looking at at another institution? I think sometimes too, it can be helpful to look up in your hierarchical structure of where you’re working. Maybe there’s not space to grow where you’re currently at. If you look up and there’s, oh, folks who have been in their associate director positions for a while, and they’re probably not going to leave until they retire or become a director, right, there’s that bottleneck. Okay, maybe you do make a lateral move, so you can develop a network at another place where you may be able to move up at some point, right? That’s something to think about too.
I also think just your personal life is something to consider too. At this point in my career, like I said, this is the fourth place I’ve worked in five and a half years. My spouse in July took a job in Texas, and I went, “Oh, I don’t think I want to move to Texas for your temporary one-year job that you’re going to be doing. I’m going to stay here, because I think three moves is my number for the amount of time that I’ve had that I feel is acceptable.”
What does acceptable mean? Of course people have different perspectives of it and there is no clear-cut right answer, but I want to establish myself somewhere. I’ve decided, okay, I’m done with lateral moves in this moment. That’s not to say that will never change, but right now I want to stay somewhere and establish myself, and I’ve found a place where I enjoy working and I think it’s a good fit, so that’s something that I’ve considered as well. I’m sure there’s things I’m not considering as well.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Well, yeah. There’s always going to be opportunity costs for any decision we make. Sometimes those are just more apparent than other times. I think it is what I always sense and am hearing from what you’re saying, is as much as you can before you set on the journey of starting your life, get your resume together. Apply to things and whatever else. Put some boundaries in place. What’s the red line or whatever. For you, it’s like, “It just in my gut feels like three times within a period of time, it’s too many times to move,” because that is a burden and it’s a hassle to have to move and stuff.
That idea of if you give yourself … and I always love this metaphor, of giving yourself a sandbox to play in. Set boundaries. It is contained in that area. That is where you can mess around and see what happens, because it could be that idea of knowing, “Okay, where I am now, I feel like these are the things that I’m looking for. I want to go to a more urban place on the East Coast for a position in residence life,” all those things, because then I think there is a temptation if it’s just like, “I’m souring on something here.”
One, there is something said of don’t just immediately jump ship at the first sign, because jobs to jobs, there’s going to be parts that you don’t like. It’s that idea of if you meditate on it, start building the boundaries and going about it with as much intentionality as you can. You’re not just like, “I want anything else that’s not this,” and then you just end up in a similar position, whatever. Start putting those boundaries in place. Be really fine-tuning and as focused as you can, so that you are absolutely getting as close to the bullseye target of what you’re looking for for your lifestyle, for your professional development opportunities, and just the dynamics of your day-to-day and everything, because I think that that is important.
I think there’s just sometimes that kneejerk or just tendency of just anything else is better than this because it’s different, it’s like, maybe, but maybe not. Because I think for me, just naturally, and I would assume that this is the case for most people, I think it’s like each job you go into, you start goldilocking your way towards like, “Oh, yeah. I felt this, I’ve lived it, I like this about it, not that.” Each search, that you’re like, “I want more of this, less of that,” and whatever else. You just keep getting better at that naturally, hopefully, if you’re reflecting on those moments and milestones and parts of your journey.
I think especially if you know that like, okay, I guess there’s something here … and I’ll bounce this back to you … but that idea of I would presume most people aren’t starting a job search and being like, “I’m going to make a lateral move.” That’s not necessarily the frame, but it could be that idea of like, “I’m comfortable doing that and approaching my search in this way.” I think if you could speak to maybe that idea, because I’m thinking I guess a lot about this preparatory piece, how can you get in the right mindset, prepare yourself and set yourself up for success as much as possible. I don’t know, though. Any of those things squirreling and acknowledging that piece of like, sure, you’re probably not going to be starting the search, presuming that you’re going to make a lateral move, but that you may just need to be comfortable with doing that to achieve what you’re looking for and having it happen with more expediency.
Tamarah Humphreys:
Right. Maybe if someone is job searching. First and foremost, I feel like someone can apply to a job at any time. That doesn’t mean you’re necessarily actively job searching or trying to leave your current position. There’s no guarantee that you’ll apply to the job and then get it. I don’t think there’s any harm in folks applying to some things that they might be interested in, but also it’s good to know what you’re interested in. As you said, as you’re playing around in the sandbox, is there a certain amount of pay you need to see? Are there certain benefits that will really help you? Some folks might need better health insurance than the next person, or somebody might feel like they need a certain amount of funds to support their family.
I know where I’m working now, it’s a Catholic institution, so you have to be married to have your significant other live on campus with you. For some people that might be a deal breaker, so that’s not the kind of position you would want to apply to. Everyone has these different factors and things that they’ll need to consider when it comes to looking for a job. Maybe it’s that they’re looking for more responsibility or they’re wanting to work at a school that takes a curricular approach, or who knows. There’s just such a plethora of things someone could be looking for when it comes to taking a move.
Then also, there’s times where someone might be forced into taking a move in their position. I’ve had friends who have just lost jobs because of cuts being made in higher education. That’s a thing that can happen to folks too, and it’s not their fault. It’s just the landscape of higher education right now. There’s a lot that goes into why someone might make a lateral move, even if that’s not necessarily what their goal is as they go into it.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I mean, you’re already acknowledging, answering this next question ahead, of the way that environment impacts. Those are certain things of I’m thinking big, small institution, public, private, religiously affiliated or not, then I guess even acknowledge. Are they using the curricular approach? What style of housing do they have? Because it might just be where it’s like, “Yeah, we’re in an urban environment or we don’t have the traditional campus experience,” or whatever. That environment will impact things as well. Certainly where you’re coming from, that idea of the dynamics of like, “I don’t have a job anymore. I’ve been let go because of cuts or whatever.” Because think of a metaphor. “I’m needing to jump ship in the sense of this is a sinking ship. I don’t have anywhere to be now, so I need to jump to another thing,” which may be a lateral move.
I think even just some of the other things that you’re mentioning, I guess you could lump into here of that idea of the hierarchy that could inform just that idea of I’ll make a lateral move so that I then can have a runway or a trajectory to move up and stuff. That unfortunately is the case sometimes for folks, as they have to move on to move up and whatever. Even just, unfortunately, the moment we’re in of just cuts and things is also just informing a lot of people’s perspectives. I think the biggest headline here is if you can be open to a lateral move, I think it certainly opens your opportunities to have better day-to-day work, just general lifestyle and all those things.
I think the environment impacts all the push-and-pull factors that would go into somebody starting on this journey. I feel like we’ve covered that pretty well. I appreciate you speaking really, I think, to the comprehensive context, and clearly it’s stirring something in my mind of just all these dynamics of how do we make choices in our lives, and where we work and what jobs we do and all those things. As we wrap this up, though, are there other final bits of advice or resources that you’d want to share on this topic that we could put in the show notes? Just stuff to cast people out back into the world as they finish up this episode.
Tamarah Humphreys:
I don’t have any specific resources that I’ll point folks to, but I would advise people to look at their own personal situation, think about what’s right for them in the moment but also your career in the long run, being forward-thinking. If you have a mentor, that can be someone who’s really good to speak with regarding what you’re processing and sitting in. Mentorship can just be a good way to get to chat with someone who maybe isn’t right in the work that you’re doing or right at the same institution that you’re at.
Like I said before, applying for a job doesn’t mean you’re leaving your current role. It could help get you thinking about the things that you’re looking for in a job as well. At the end of the day, there’s really no right or wrong answer when it comes to your own personal career journey. It makes it hard to know what the right answer is when there’s no playbook exactly laying it all out for you. I guess those would be my parting words.
Dustin Ramsdell:
I guess part of it is like you have to make the playbook for yourself. You gotta set those boundaries and priorities and things like that. I mean, yeah, certainly the counsel of sage and wise advisors can be informative in that regard. Sometimes in those situations where I have to stop and tell myself where it’s like, there’s not a wrong choice, you can’t make a wrong choice here. It’s like you’re getting stuck in your head of like, “I want to make the perfect best choice,” or whatever. It’s like, “Hey, you have nothing but good choices here. You can’t make a wrong choice. You just do need to decide on something and not get stuck in the analysis paralysis of just comparing things and spreadsheets,” whatever.”
Because even that idea of don’t let a good opportunity pass you by. Apply, interview, see how it feels or whatever, versus it being like, “Well, I’ve not formally started a job search yet, so I don’t know if I can apply to that.” It’s like, apply if you want and see what happens. Even just the general notion that I’ve had a lot of times is like I’ll apply more often to things than not, because it’s the idea of like, “I’m going to let them tell me no. I’m not going to tell myself no.” Make them say like, “No, we’re good.” Especially if it’s just right out of the gate, you apply, you get the rejection, it’s like, “All right, cool, whatever.” Or just you go through interviews and it’s like, “All right, well, I did my best. I was able to showcase myself and they told me no. It wasn’t me getting in my own way and not even applying because it’s like, oh, not even going to be worth it.”
I think this is an important conversation, clearly a timely one, as it ever is, folks in that Facebook group talked about it just recently. I hope that this could be a resource and an inspiring, motivating piece of content for folks navigating all this, and appreciate you sharing all that you did. Appreciate you doing all you’ve done for the blogging team this year. Yeah, it’s just been great talking to you for this episode.
Tamarah Humphreys:
You too.
