We’re pleased to welcome Brian to the show this week to talk about his journey that led him to joining ACPA in a professional capacity as well as what he sees as the ways professional organizations are creating relevant opportunities for learning, camaraderie, and authentic connections for higher education staff members all over the world.
*You may notice that there was a minor audio issue in the middle of this episode, which required us to swap mics. We appreciate your patience and understanding!
Guest: Brian Hopkins (he/him/his), Director of Convention & Events, ACPA – College Student Educators International
Host: Dustin Ramsdell
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Transcript:
Dustin Ramsdell:
Hello everyone and welcome back to Roompact’s Res Ed Chat podcast. If you’re new to the show, this is a platform to showcase people doing great work. And talk about relevant topics and residence life and college student housing with folks who work in the space and with the space.
And I’m your host, Dustin Ramsdell, use he/him pronouns. We are talking today with Brian Hopkins from ACPA. And Brian, if you want to just introduce yourself really quickly. And since you are part of the ACPA organization, as we’re recording this, recently had their annual national conference. So if you want to just reflect on that experience quickly as you’re telling us how you got to be where you are today and be a part of that event.
Brian Hopkins:
Yeah, thank you so much Dustin. And hi everyone. My name is Brian Hopkins. As Dustin showed, I use he/him pronouns. I currently serve as ACPA’s Director of Convention and events. I have been in that role since December of 2022.
Prior to that though, I was serving as a higher education professional myself. I actually joined the profession in 2009. When I finished grad school, however, did have a full GAship prior to that starting back in 2007.
So to give you a little bit of a trajectory for me, so you know what perspective and what identity-based work I’ve done that has brought me to this place.
When I was in graduate school, I was actually serving as a graduate hall director at Clemson University. So I started that professional or paraprofessional work in housing and residence life. And then took it onto my first professional role at Syracuse University where I served as a residence director. And eventually a dual position as their residence director and their coordinator for inclusion within their office of residence life.
I spent about five years there. So overall working in that residence director, leading residence hall spaces for about seven years with varying focuses on living learning communities, residence education and different types of populations and different residence halls and all of those types of things.
But after that, I actually took a little bit of a break outside of the residence life territory. I went to Stony Brook University where I started working in student orientation. And then continued that work at the University of Nottingham with a broader focus on first year experience. And then wrapped up my higher education career thus far because we never know what the future holds. Right?
I’m working in academic support at the University of Mount Union. So very much had those experiences at some small private liberal arts institutions and then some large either both public and private institutions with D1 athletics and everything else going on along there.
Currently, I also am a doctoral student at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse pursuing my doctoral degree in student affairs administration and leadership. And the reason why I think that is important comes up a little bit in the future parts of the episode.
But that is my professional background, grounded in housing initially, which is as everyone knows, just such a phenomenal place to really gain so many skills in terms of how to be a successful higher education professional with exposure to supporting students. A lot of exposure to crisis management, to project management and to supervision and all of those very, very important things that develop those skills along the way.
And with that being said, diving in and as Dustin said, we did just have our ACPA 2025 convention in Long Beach, California. And as someone who currently resides in Ohio, it’s a little bit warmer this week, but let me tell you, the weather was absolutely phenomenal.
So I will at least enjoy that. And that while I was there, I was enjoying the sun and the warmer weather, but then got off the plane when I got home in what felt like subzero temperatures. And of course I didn’t take a coat because who needed a coat in Long Beach. So that was a fun time.
But when I think about that experience, the Long Beach convention, and I want to go on a little bit of a history tour there for a second.
Long Beach was initially supposed to be our convention in 2021. So this was a contracted convention back in 2014, and then in 2021, we all know why we didn’t have one. Right? We couldn’t host an in-person convention because of the COVID pandemic. So then that was rescheduled for 2025. And as a result of that rescheduled, this convention happened at a time that it does not normally happen.
We met in mid-February and ACPA has not had a convention in mid-February at any other time, which felt different and maybe a little weird at first for a lot of reasons. Because these big conventions that happen are always in March or very very early April. Going all the way back in February, feels like it’s very close to the beginning of the semester. It’s still winter for the country, the United States, and different things along there.
And it took away from some planning time. So it was this thing that really was like, “Ugh.” And people didn’t know to think about it. Are people fully thinking about that early enough to realize, “Oh, it’s coming up so quickly,” when it’s not like me, my everyday life is thinking about this convention. And the team, it’s their everyday life thinking about it. But it’s not necessarily going to be your typical student affairs professional to think about, “Oh, this is when ACPA is definitely going to be.”
So there were just a lot of things about it being in February that just did not feel great, but we had to make the best of a situation. And let me tell you, coming home from that convention, and this is where I get to the point of the question, is that the only thing that I could say is that it happened. When it happened, it was like the universe telling us that we were going to need it.
With everything that has been going on in 2025 so far, all the challenges that higher education professionals, residents, life professionals, everyone have been experiencing with the introduction of different regulations, different policies changing how we do our work. That opportunity to come together in community, to be with one another, to brainstorm and to think about what does this mean going forward for all of us?
But also to fill our buckets. To go back home and to actually go back to our campuses ready to support students and rejuvenated in new ways. You could never have told me that we needed that in February like we did this year. And so in some ways the fact that that is where we ended up on that rescheduled cycle of it being in February, in some ways it just feels like it was right.
Also, before we knew everything that was going to be coming, we developed a tagline for this convention of Take a Breath and Begin Again. And really it was maybe more of a meaningful tagline than we intended for it to be at the time. Right?
We initially were thinking about it from the weather of coming here in the middle of winter into this sunny location. And being able to just get off of the plane, and hopefully enjoy some very nice weather, which was going to be fantastic for all of us. It’s how we experienced our site visit when we were planning the convention.
However, I think it took on a very new meaning for all of us who were there and for all of the members that we were serving in that time. Because never more before have I thought about a time in higher education where we really need to take a breath, come together and begin again because of all of the changes that are happening in the world today.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing all your story and about this recent event, because I think that is just a sentiment that is coming up a lot. As I’ve been hearing folks posting and talking about their experiences at conferences this calendar year is that there are spaces that are needed now more than ever, just even for the sense of community and camaraderie. And to share perspectives on this moment and strategies for how to navigate it.
So glad that that was a feeling shared by you and I’m sure many others that went to the recent ACPA conference and everything. And I think, it’s just something where it is tough because you’re planning months in advance, you don’t know precisely. You do have to maybe stick to general platitudes or do it where it’s flexible enough to adapt to the moment. I think it’s very, very serendipitous how everything worked out.
Brian Hopkins:
One other thing, and Dustin, I’m sorry to interrupt you there. But the one other thing that I did not say and that just popped into my mind based on when you said that. The Dear Colleague letter that I’m sure you’ve heard about and everyone’s talking about these days, it was released the Friday before convention.
So I’m already onsite getting ready to implement convention and we have this huge announcement of some kind come out that is something everyone’s going to be talking about. And I think that again, that was just a timing that felt right in that people were going to need to talk about this and figure out how to respond.
And we also saw folks having to respond on their campuses instead of being able to take the time away from the convention a little bit while they’re there. And I think them being together while they had to do that was also something that was just the support that folks needed at the time.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, that’s crazy to think about, because much has happened in such a short period of time. And we’re recording this mid-March and I think there’s a lot of ambiguity. There’s obviously, a lot of just rug pulls and different things. And then even, just the back and forth where something will be put down and there’s some injunction or stay, whatever.
So it’s just a tough moment where … Well, we don’t even know what things are going to look like in the next few months, but at least, just we need each other. We need the fun, we need the camaraderie, we need the celebration and affirmation that what we’re doing matters.
And feel this inspiration, motivation to keep pressing onward and I think, something I always just appreciate about those spaces and places, especially now working in the way that I do. My full-time work of working remotely, but still with institutions and everything, I find so much more value now being in community with fellow higher-ed folks.
So you mentioned, you started at ACPA a few years ago. It’s always interesting for us, I think, to uplift stories, folks that have made transitions from working at one institution to working with many. So to zoom in on that particular moment, what was the push or pull factors that were on your mind? And just talk through that moment, and the transition, and any culture shock pieces or whatever else comes to mind.
But I think want to hear your reflections on that moment. But also just generally, how has working at ACPA changed or affirmed your perspective on the work generally? Because obviously, even your background is generally student support, student affairs. It’s those broad buckets of all the different forms that that takes and everything.
So I think we’ll keep this conversation to that general vernacular and everything. But what was that moment of transition like? And then how has the work that you’ve done over the past couple of years changed or affirmed your perspective on the work?
Brian Hopkins:
I love that question.
And the thing is that when I think about this transition, what precipitated it was honestly my volunteer work with ACPA. So prior to this job … Like I said, I was a higher education professional and I was volunteering with multiple professional associations within different capacities. But all of them within an event planning, conference planning perspective. I was doing that with NODA, the Association for Orientation, Transition and Retention for higher education as well as with ACPA.
So I think that in many ways that volunteer work is what created a lot of the passion that I have for this kind of work. And where I saw that I could make a difference for the field and where I was enjoying spending time.
So when the opportunity presented itself, I approached Tricia who is the deputy executive director for ACPA at one of our conventions. And I said, “Hey, I’m thinking about this as a possible next career move. I love working on campuses. But I also really love this work and I think I might have an interest in doing it full time.” And she being the supportive person that she is like, “Oh yeah, let’s talk about that.”
And little did I know that within, not too, too far off of an opportunity would be presented for me to actually apply to a job at ACPA. And that’s what felt right because I was getting that itch. I had some mentors who were saying, “Hey, you’re really good at thinking about this big picture. You’re really good at these details that go into convention planning. Maybe this is something that you should think about.”
So I had some great mentors in Rachel Beech and others who very much started my thinking across that line. And the truth is that I still love working in higher education. I still love students. So who’s to say it will always be a thing, but where I’m in an association work, I don’t know. Who knows what the future brings.
But for me, I think the thing that I would also say about this transition is that whereas I am in a completely different kind of world, an association world, as opposed to working on a college campus. I think that because I’m also a doctoral student, it has grounded me in what the base work is and what the work is that’s most important for our members.
And I think that that has been incredibly valuable because I’m always still hearing perspectives. Not just from the volunteer leaders that are planning our professional development events, but from my colleagues within my doctoral program.
I think that’s all teaching me all these things and all these perspectives and all these experiences that in many ways. Now it’s my job to somewhat respond to supplement and to support as this association professional whose main focus is supposed to be on the professional development of higher education professionals.
So when I think about that grounding, I think that that is what has also kept me in this space of almost feeling limbo-ish sometimes of like, “Yes, I am an association professional and association leader. But I am also still very passionate about higher education and that work. And still have very strong attachments to it.”
Which I think benefits our members in terms of the professional development that we are creating, because it comes from that perspective of the [inaudible 00:14:15]. And yes, I am doing this work, however, I have this background. And I think that that’s incredibly important for ensuring that we are creating such valuable experiences for our membership.
And when I think about this too, I think the thing that excited me the most about the position, I was working at a small institution in the northeastern part of Ohio, great institution, loved my time there, learned a lot, grew a lot. But this takes me to thinking about higher education more on a global level. Even if you think about it from the perspective of the institute on the curricular approach, which is one of our signature institute events. We have a number of participants from Canada every single year who attend that institute.
So it’s not even just thinking about higher education within the context of the United States. It’s actually thinking about higher education even more broadly and thinking about it from the perspective of what are the global trends that we are also seeing?
And sometimes we’re in meetings where we will have a faculty member who speaks up like, “Well, what about our participants from Canada?” And we’ll have a faculty member in that for this institute saying, “Yeah, we have this too. The things that you are experiencing are not just the United States, they’re actually things that we are going to experience in Canada.” Because there are just certain cultural shifts that are happening. It’s not just in one country or another. It trickles out. We are a global world these days.
So whenever you have a movement out there that is occurring, it is likely impacting professionals across the divide. And I think that in many ways, having that global perspective on higher education and thinking about how do we move forward? How do we keep things going in a direction where we are advancing higher education? We’re not staying stagnant, I think, is even more important.
I think those are the things that always come to mind when I’m thinking about this work and how transition to this work has continued to challenge me in new ways. In very meaningful ways, to think even more broadly beyond my own experiences today.
Dustin Ramsdell:
And that’s the interesting thing, I think, is just the more that we can normalize struggles, but then also share best practices kind of things. It’s the right combo and conferences and events are always a great way to do that.
So I think that idea of even normalizing in the sense of other places around the world, other higher education institutions across the world are dealing with similar things. And even the idea maybe of some of them are able to address those problems, solve those problems.
It’s great to be able to hear those stories, because obviously they’re just going to be coming at it in a completely different context and everything. But if they were ending up at the same place of having to deal with a similar issue and they maybe solved it. It could just be a great way to have a different frame of reference, a different, objective outside point of view versus folks who are so baked into how American higher education is.
So I think it’s really interesting that you’ve been able to get that perspective and get it much more firsthand than others might. They might just only read about things and have to infer themselves about one thing or another and similar struggles or whatever else.
But I think this will really be the bold circle, underlined. The main takeaway and point to be made here is, I think, with all of you’ve said in the journey you’ve been on and coming right off a few weeks ago, the national and global event of ACPA and bringing everybody together and having that time. What do you think makes organizations like ACPA important, especially right now at this moment for higher education?
Because I think, again, ACPA had its recent 100-year anniversary and those sort of thing. There’s these long-standing institutions through these huge moments in our history as a society and everything. But I think just making sure that we take the time and space here to recognize why they’re still relevant. Why they’re still important. Why we need to keep showing up, investing and supporting these kind of organizations, the work they do. What’s your perspective on why organizations like ACPA are important, especially right now?
Brian Hopkins:
And in full transparency, I’m going to repeat a little bit of something that I already said. And because I think it is one of the most important things, especially right now, and this is based on my experience in Long Beach at ACPA 2025.
But I think that one of the most important things that we are doing right now as we are creating space. And I experienced this as a professional, and that’s why I say this. Coming from this, I know what it was like as a professional to do this too. But when we are going to our campuses every day as higher education professionals, it is very easy to get into that silo, into that mindset, into that head space of, “This is my campus. This is exactly what I need to do and this is what I need to focus on. These are the people that I’m interacting with every single day.”
And that’s important. Those are your colleagues. Those are the relationships that you are going to have to collaborate with one another. Those are the people who you can, in person, bounce ideas off of every day. And there’s a lot of generative activity that can happen in those spaces.
However, it becomes group think in many ways, right? Because you only have this one perspective. And I think that at times of change, one of the most important things that we need to do is create that space for individuals coming from different institutions, and different perspectives and different experiences with how institutions are responding to different trends, to different policies, different regulations.
I think that creation of community and that generative dialogue around these topics is so important because I think that we need to make sure that we are educated. And that we are educating higher education professionals to be on their campuses and do their best work to make sure that they are supporting students holistically and fully, to create the generation of tomorrow. Educated of an educated society.
So when I think about that, I think that that creation of that space to build on the knowledge and the experience that you have of one another to educate yourself more fully. So that you can be a more proactive and responsive professional is incredibly important.
I also think that it’s incredibly important. Because there are so many times, and we see it especially in these changing times where professionals are not getting the support that they need on their campuses from their supervisors or from their leadership. And I think it’s important in those contexts that we are creating those spaces for individuals to feel supported. To create mentorship opportunities beyond their campuses, maybe even beyond their graduate programs. And what they’ve had to establish those relationships, to get to know others who are doing similar work at different institutions to build on the programs that we’re already doing and the best practices that are there.
The truth is that there is so much great work that is happening out there. And I have always seen my own development and my own building of that professional work. And that truly impacts my campuses when I’ve gone to conferences and come home with an idea, because I’m not sitting in a session saying, “X University did this.” I’m thinking, “They did this because of this. How do I make that work on my campus?”
So it’s that thing of very much planting seeds, watering seeds, creating these generative ideas that very much keeps your campus from getting too lost in the weeds and only in their own think. You’ve got to know what others are doing in order to make sure that you are continuing to think strategically and playing your way forward.
And I think that when I think about associations, I think we are creating those spaces to share knowledge. We are creating those spaces to share best practices. And what are these high-impact work practices that we can implement to really make meaningful change within higher education?
But also, how do we create this supportive community so that individuals who maybe aren’t getting that support that they need to be the best human and the best professional they are. How do we create that? How do we cultivate that? And that is the work that associations, I think, are very, very important in doing.
And I think the other thing that makes us important is that we aren’t just looking at an individual state or an individual country. We are looking at higher education and thinking about higher education from a much bigger picture. And I think that sometimes that’s very important because you can’t operate in this little bubble. Right? We need to think about everything from a much broader perspective.
And I think that associations create the opportunity to do that because that’s what we’re doing. I spend every week not just looking at what came down from the federal government, but I get information about, “Here’s all this stuff that’s going on in different states.” And that’s the kind of stuff that helps inform my work as an association professional and how I best support our members.
So we’re thinking about it from a much more cohesive, I think, perspective as opposed to just this one little space in this one little part of the state.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, I really like what you said, that individuals at institutions may not have a lot of opportunities for certainly, deep immersive professional development. But even just any good intentional time to do these things. So I think having, if never any other time throughout the year, you’ve got organizations like ACPA committing to fostering these learning opportunities.
I think I’ve always appreciated, certainly the space in the community and that camaraderie and everything. But it is where organizations like ACPA, there’s a broader, larger, higher-ed context. Trying to bring in as many diverse perspectives and backgrounds and institutions and all those things, and different, the keynotes and stuff. I don’t know, I think it’s always going to be a tall order. You’re never going to make everybody happy, but just the idea of you got to try, you got to do something.
And the idea of, it’s always going to be a little different flavor as time goes on. And adapting with the times over 100 years and stuff, it looks different now than it did before. But even some of the core values sticking true and staying strong throughout all that time.
I’m sure in certain people’s perspectives and minds, it’s like, “Oh, how can an organization like this stay relevant over 100 years?” It’s like, “How could it not?” Just the idea of these convenings and just bringing people together to do show and tell and talk shop and troubleshoot things.
And understand what’s going on that might be informing, where it’s like, “Oh, I think we’re good. We’re doing the right things.” Or whatever else. Where it’s like, “Oh my gosh, yeah, I had this blind spot. I need to really recognize and interface with to figure out how we can integrate that into our strategy and everything.”
So I don’t know. I think it’s just valuable for its nature of what it does. And I don’t know, just further thoughts on different ways that ACPA stay as relevant and stays important.
Brian Hopkins:
And I think the other thing that we do … And I think we stay relevant because we have great volunteer leaders and great leadership that very much is making sure we do. We cannot be stagnant. We always need to be educating ourselves.
And I think that is what’s important is that, just as I say, higher education professionals shouldn’t be doing that. I can’t be doing that either, right? I need to be always reading, always learning more. And especially, as me coming out of a doctoral program, I think that I’ve got all this knowledge right now, which is fantastic. But I need to make sure that that knowledge keeps growing after this, and I can’t just fall on the laurels that maybe that has been good enough up until this point.
But the other thing that I would say about ACPA and what makes us so important, and I think for so many professionals, is that when we create these spaces, these in-person experiences, particularly at convention, but I would say even at others. We do very much value the importance of creating an affirming space for our members, for our non-members, for anyone who is coming to our space. And we encourage folks to come as their own true authentic selves.
And a lot of times we hear people say, “I can’t be my true authentic self on my own campus. I don’t fall into that what is expected in that norming of this campus culture.” And so creating that space where individuals can come together and express themselves in the way that most true to themselves, I think creates an opportunity to very much focus on the humanity of all of us too.
And I think that that humanity is critical, especially in these challenging times. So creating that space, I think, I believe, and I know actually … I don’t think, I know, is just so important to making sure that we are supporting higher education professionals in a way that allows them to express themselves. To learn as themselves, and then to go back onto their campuses and to create what is really a more dynamic space for their students and for their other colleagues.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Right. Seeing other people, even again, just troubleshooting similar things, but how people authentically show up or talk about their stories and stuff like that. And I think to your point of having the spaces that help to foster lifelong learnings. I think any more, on one hand it’s like, “Yeah, there’s learning can happen anywhere and everywhere. There’s no shortage of YouTube videos or this that the other to pursue.”
But a curation of it that different professional organizations can do, I think really tries to help people learn the right things in the right way at the right time versus relying on just ad hoc random occurrences and stuff. But just the lifelong learning being important, having these spaces that people can show up into authentically. And having other people see that and hopefully being inspired by that or affirmed by that.
And it’s one of those things where I think, to some of the points we making before too, people can take something like this for granted. It’s been here for a long time, I’m sure it’s going to continue to be here for a long time. But I think if you value these communities, you value these spaces and places and organizations and stuff, you got to make sure that you keep showing up, keep giving back, and all those sort of things. Like you said, obviously a lot of generous volunteers and stuff.
But it makes you think of like, “Hey, you like your local coffee shop.” You might be like, “Oh, they’re so great or whatever.” You do have to actually go there sometimes and do your part to make sure they actually survive and persist and all that. It’s not just written into natural law that any of this stuff is supposed to be here and that sort of thing.
All right. Well all that to be said, as we’re wrapping up here, I wanted to give you the final word here on how you can maybe wrap everything up. All that we’ve covered and value professional organizations, you’re going to transition into working into this wider scope and everything. What advice would you have right now, particularly for the residential education Res Life professionals out there right now?
Brian Hopkins:
Definitely a few things come to mind. And I think the first one is don’t trust other people teaching you things. You need to be your own educator in some ways right now. All education can come with a taintedness to it in some way, shape or form. And I don’t mean that in a bad way or in a good way, but it’s important that you’re doing your own reading. It’s important that you’re doing your own critical thinking.
So focus on putting professional development time in your weekly or monthly or bi-weekly schedule and hold yourself to that. Save articles that you want to read, podcasts that you want to listen to. However you do it, it’s important to make sure that you are keeping yourself informed so that you’re not just relying on information that is coming down from say, supervisors or leadership. Make sure that you are an educated and engaged participant in this, and don’t be afraid to ask those critical questions.
The more education you have, the better the questions you can ask to make sure that you are keeping yourself and your students at the forefront of the thought process at all times. And when I think about that, especially for Res Ed professionals, you are on the ground, especially if you are in the ones who are interacting with students on a daily basis. They’re living with you.
I remember what that was like. And I think that you have a different pulse on students than other professionals do because of that experience. So making sure that you are knowledgeable and aren’t afraid to speak up, you need to make sure that you have that knowledge to do so. And to do so in very meaningful ways to ensure that students are always being taken care of.
And the other thing I would say is making sure that you’re taking care of yourself. Whatever it takes in your life to make sure that you do not get burned out, whether it’s joining a club off campus, whether it is making sure that you are using your PTO. Yes, that PTO is yours, you need to use it. Do whatever you need to do to make sure that you are able to stay sharp for your work and for your students, but also for yourself.
And I say that because this work is important. And I think that one of the things that I will say right now in higher education is that I don’t think that there has been, in my professional experience, a more important time for us to do great work. And to make sure that we are constantly doing great and informed work.
And in order to do that, you have to have the energy, you have to have the stamina, you have to have the motivation. So make sure that you are taking care of yourself, take care of the human within you/ and just make sure that you are very much always pushing higher education to be better because we are still a young field in many ways. And I think that it is important that we live up to the moment right now.
So that is my parting word, is make sure that you are not burning yourself out so that we can really meet the moment.
Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, great advice. And I think sometimes it’s an idea, the radical notion of finding joy and a very hard moment and stuff. The idea of, “Yeah, take care of yourself, take your PTO, do all those things so that you can do good work.” And that again, even in spite of this moment, that’s what I like to say to people. It’s almost like I’m bitterly resenting, but then it’s channeled into this optimistic energy of like, “I’m not going to let them win. I’m going to keep trying. I’m going to keep doing the work, I’m going to do all this stuff.”
Like you said, I think it’s an interesting asterisks on some of the things, like lifelong learning and all that. I think it undergirds the idea of the organizations or things in your life that you trust, that you feel are validated and all that. Investing that much more in those resources to do your learning versus just stumbling around YouTube and related videos that it just serves up to you because of an algorithm that often doesn’t care about the accuracy of information.
The idea of, “Yeah, we need to keep learning and growing and doing that together.” But doing it in a way that we have that critical thinking and the scrutiny. And again, there’s no shortage of different resources and information out there. So I think if there’s any topics that you care about that will help empower you to do great work and any of those things.
Just being thoughtful about how you approach it because I think, we obviously all have our biases of just being like, “Aha, the one thing that affirms my point of view and this is going to run with the river.” We can all get lead astray there. So I think it’s always good because especially if you’re trying to build coalitions and actually get things done in a sustainable way. You’re going to need to do your homework and bring all this information and some justifications and studies and stats, and whatever else that you can find, to support that.
So I think it’s even that idea of that that sort of work matters if that’s somewhere that you can find a sense of peace or Zen or whatever else of, “I’m going to dig in. I’m going to know my stuff. And I’m going to be able to really dig in to advocate for a thing that we need to be doing. Or we should or could be doing to do our best work, support our students, and all that kind of stuff.”
So I think throwing all that into a blender and great final thoughts and pieces of advice for folks to really take inspiration from. We’ll have ways to connect with you and ACPA of course, in the show notes for this episode. But just really appreciate you and your time, coming off a couple of weeks ago, your big event there. And reflecting on that and just sharing all that you did. It’s much appreciated.
Brian Hopkins:
Thank you for this time. It was great chatting with you.
