ResEdChat Ep 98: Achieving Supervisory Success with Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins

Dustin Ramsdell:
Welcome back, everyone, to Roompact’s, ResEdChat Podcast. Every episode, if you’re new to the show, we feature a variety of topics of interest to hired professionals who work in and with university housing, residence life, residential education, whatever you might call it. All are welcome.
But we are continuing on, if you’re following along, our series of episodes as we do every year with our blog writers who have come on, written amazing content on a variety of topics all year long. But just giving an opportunity to sort of get a little more of a warmer interaction with them versus just their writing, getting to hear their voice and see them and just talk more about some of the concepts and themes that they’ve explored and some of their writing.
So we’ll be talking about supervision in this episode and kind of just seeing where that takes us. It’s kind of open-ended and we’ll see kind of what we get into here in the time that we have. But we’ll start as we always do. Stephanie, if you want to introduce yourself briefly, give an overview of your professional background and how you got to be where you are today.

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
First of all, Dustin, thank you for having me. I’m super excited to spend a little bit of time to talk about supervision, one of my favorite topics. I’m Stephanie Carter-Atkins. I’m the Executive Director of Residence Life and Housing at Wake Forest University in sunny Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Happy we have some nice weather behind me.
I have been at Wake since 2017, so I started as the Director of Residence Life and as of last April, I was promoted into the executive director role. So super excited to continue being at Wake and all the great things. Let’s see, I have worked professionally since I graduated with my master’s in 2002 from the University of Georgia, so it’s been a while. I don’t know, I think I started when I was 10 years old, so all the things. But I have worked professionally in this field the entire time.
So residence life and housing is my bread and butter, all the great things and being able to help shape the experience that students living on campus, working with our staff, all different levels from RAs up to professional staff members to me has been kind of my professional joy in being able to see all levels of it from when I was an RA myself at Florida State to obviously now being at Wake and being able to shape the experience that our students have on campus here at Wake Forest has been pretty exciting for me.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Now, here is a brief follow-up to your background. I just thought of this, it’d be interesting to maybe if you sort of just reflect on it, did you ever supervise prior to your higher ed career? Because I feel like sometimes people become a shift manager if they’re working at a fast food place or something like that. Did you ever have supervisory experience prior to your current career?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
Not really. I never, you know what? I never worked in food service. I worked at the mall when I was in college, but I never supervised folks really. So truly my experience working in residence life and housing is what kind of threw me into managing folks. And whatever little bit I got in graduate school, obviously being a graduate resident, that’s what the position was at Georgia and supervising some RAs, which I’m like, “I don’t even know why they trusted me to do that.” But whatever we made it through, everybody survived the things, but yeah, it was really just in this field.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because that, I think that’s a good thing. Because that is my story as well, and I’m sure shared by many is that yeah, maybe in grad school or if it is some folks who go straight through from undergrad into a professional position out of campus and whatever that might be, those sort of exposures when they’re in their mid-20 or whenever, that is their first time just being thrust into supervision.
And so yeah, that is just a little kind of lining here to our conversation is that idea of, yeah, people will kind of just happen upon supervision and how do we sort of interface with that and kind of help people do better. But before we get too far, just obviously part of what you’re doing now in addition to your current position is sharing your knowledge and reflections and insights and experiences through being a blog writer for Roompact. Any just reflections on the experience, what kind of inspires you to apply and get in? Just any reflections on your experience so far being a writer for Roompact?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
Yeah. So I have a creative writing degree from undergrad that I don’t… Whatever. I don’t really do much with it, but it’s been great. I love it, absolutely. But when I saw the posting, I can’t remember what Facebook site I saw it on. I was like, “Ooh, I like to write. Why don’t I see,” at least put my hat in the ring, right? See what can come from it. But it’s been pretty awesome.
I think the hardest thing for me at times is thinking about what I’m going to write about each month. And I always get to like, “Oh gosh, it’s due Friday. I need to come up with a topic, so I need to start writing.” And sometimes I give myself that pressure to, well, at some point you have no choice, you’ve got to write something. So you got to figure out a topic, figure out if it’s something that’s going to be month specific.
Maybe there’s something going on. I just obviously finished one for November, and it was more about being thankful and grateful and spending just thinking about that. So to me, it has been one, trying to be creative and think about topics. I mean, it’s been a great experience. I’ve loved being able to have this as a different creative outlet because obviously it does tie hand in hand with the work that I do here.
But I think the hardest piece has just been like, “Oh my gosh, it’s almost a new month,” which comes super quick when you have deadlines at the beginning of it to think about what you’re going to write and make sure it doesn’t sound like, I don’t know, just kind of foolishness.
But it’s been an awesome thing. I would recommend it to anyone. I had truly just kind of applied and obviously Paul pick me and the other folks who were doing it. So if you have any inclination or even if you just want to challenge yourself I think in kind of writing and being creative in that way, see if you can do it. That’s what I say, but it’s been great.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, I appreciate that because I think that’s sort of like the sort of folks haven’t really connected the dots. That’s our hope through asking this question to these people is people sharing their stories of how [inaudible 00:05:48] if they have a background in writing or never written before, they want to sort of challenge themselves.
But then that idea of making a commitment like this, that idea of enforcing sort of restrictions or, so that’s sometimes where some really creative things happen and that yeah, it can be where you’re really doing timely things and it’s like obviously a lot of people are searching for gratitude, thankful, thanksgiving, this…
You sort of target those kind of concepts and, right? Based on that or just sort of finding random inspiration in the world and it’s just maybe a little bit more evergreen, but it’s just sort of yeah, having to work towards that I think is a great way to kind of get that muscle more honed and whether you continue on in some fashion with that or I think it… I know for me was the initial stepping stone to kind of honing my voice and feeling comfortable putting myself out there and distinguishing myself and then eventually really fully embracing podcasting.
So here we are. But yeah, again, the topic of the day, supervision, something that you’ve written on. We’ll certainly linked out to your writings on this. But I thought it’d be interesting if you can kind of wrap your arms around what your supervisory philosophy is and how it developed.
Because I think, again, making the acknowledgement, I think it’s something that sometimes it’s very internal people, it’s just through experience and sort of doing things right, doing things wrong, whatever else. But we’ll certainly try to get to some advice and resources and things people can kind of take with them after this episode. But I guess if you want to talk also just how it has developed or how it has changed. So what is it and how did you get your supervisor philosophy to kind of where it is now?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
So I’ll say, we are… I mean, there’s probably other fields, but definitely in kind of the student affairs field, we are one of the places where you do good work and you get more people. And that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re great at managing or supervising people, but you just kind of climb up. Right? You may be good at a process and doing that, and it’s like, “Oh, let’s give them some people.” Okay, well, let’s hope for the best for those people.
But I think for me, it was several years ago, I think I stumbled across servant leadership. I think I’ve done some leadership presentations and just done my own research on stuff, and I came across the concept of servant leadership and I was like, “Wow.” It spoke to me in a different way than any other leadership philosophy that I had ever kind of paid attention to before did.
And I was like, “This is it.” I am naturally one of those people who is behind the scenes. It’s hard for me sometimes to want to be up front and be like, “The shine is on me.” Because that is just not who I am as a human being. I like to work behind the scenes. I like to make sure that things are where they need to be. I think about it from a staff perspective. I want to take care of my staff.
I want them to get the shine that they deserve because they’re doing great work and I want to be able to tell their story. And I know sometimes that is, I mean, that’s where I operate from. And I’ve had my own supervisor kind of challenge me of like, “Well, your voice is important too.” It is. I have to push myself kind of out of that space.
So to me, servant leadership is where it’s the space that I come from. So as I said, it is, I view it as my work to take the roadblocks and obstacles and all the things out of the way of my staff so they can do the work that they need to do. So obviously that for my professional staff members and what that looks like for them, so they can in turn do it for their team. So whether that’s a grad student or an RA, what are the barriers that might be stopping them from being successful in their work?
How can you take those things out of their way? So I look at that stance from obviously leading the office that I have now. Right? So I have to be able to, one, share the story of the great work that we are doing, because so much of the work in residence life and housing is behind the scenes.
People don’t know all that it takes to be able to put students in their rooms and build community for them in the residence halls, bring in our faculty members to do some academic programs and all the other things that it takes. And keep the students from trying to, I don’t know, do things that they shouldn’t be doing in our residence hall. It takes a lot of people to kind of manage that process.
So to me, and it’s hard work, right? That often doesn’t feel like it stops. You live where you work most times, and it is 24/7 if you’re on call. So how can I, and I actually have a sign on my whiteboard. I want us to be an employer of choice. So what are the things that I can do for our office and for our unit that make, in my case, obviously Wake Forest, a place that people want to come and work and stay and do all of that.
So to me, it starts with the leadership that I’m able to display at the top and how I’m able to take care of my staff. Because to me, that is truly one of the most important things. You got to take care of your people. You take care of them, and they’ll take care of their people and whatever that looks like. So I like to get to know my staff individually because that’s important. I can’t supervise everyone the same.
There is no blanket of supervision that I can put on everyone because Dustin needs something different than Frank does and everyone else in this situation. So how can I get to know the things that you need to be able to be successful in your work? So to me, it’s kind of honed itself over time because as I said, I didn’t… Kind of stumbled upon this thing and it kind of spoke to me.
And if you checked out servant leadership or looked into it obviously, and Robert Greenleaf is a person who’s kind of like tart. Like, “He did it.” But for folks who have a more biblical perspective, it is a little more rooted in kind of the teachings of things you may find in the Bible. So it spoke to me in a lot of different ways, and that’s kind of the place that I come from.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, I appreciate yeah, just getting into a little bit more detail there. Because I think it, servant leadership really does resonate within the higher ed context, student affairs, resident, all these sort of kind of community-based engagement and service and care. These are all these verbs that are coming up and it’s like, “Yeah.” And it’s like, “These aren’t, it’s not this radical new sort of concept of servant leadership.” Like you said, it goes back into any sort of number of sort of context and things.
It’s just putting kind of a label on it or kind of repackaging it where it’s just like, “Oh yeah, I mean, I get it.” Yeah, somebody who’s sort of the leader in the trenches right there with all the people and doing it, and less so about it being kind of, like you said, having the spotlight on them. But I think it’s very adaptable and on kind of an individual to individual basis, but also within different contexts. It’s like, “Yeah, well, I’m going to be a servant leader for my team to serve them and be a support to them.’
But also even how you’re talking about where it’s like you can be of service in your position entering into different rooms at different tables and being like, “Hey, I’m going to get my people what they need, the resources or be bringing in these other collaborators and that helps them to do their job better.” And that idea that that is sort of starting to air a little bit more on that side to me of that idea like you’re sort of the ambassador.
You’re the one entering into those rooms and utilizing your title and your role and your access into these spaces and everything, and not having it be like, “Oh, well, all the credits on to me or something.” That’s the idea, okay, you’re kind of tweaking here. You’re in those rooms, in those spaces, you’re utilizing your ability to yeah, garner more resources, more support, more acclaim and sort of all these things.
So it’s like it can just be in any context, you can still be able to be of service and everything. And I think to me, the idea of that, like you were saying, so much of this work, you live where work and all that, it’s so kind of communal. Everything’s kind of intermixed with each other. I think leadership styles or management styles that I think that word doesn’t really come up as much I think in this work where it’s very task oriented and organized and all that.
It’s like I mean, obviously, yeah, we would love to be as sort of organized and task driven as we could, but so much of the work is going with the flow, being reactionary and all this stuff. Because you don’t know what’s going to come up and you do try to be as proactive as possible. But I think you have to be leaving that room to be responsive, be dynamic, be flexible, adaptable, and all those sort of things.
So I think yeah, everything that you’re saying makes a lot of sense, and I feel like it comes up often as sort of a supervisory style, even though it’s like somebody would say, “Well, I’m a servant leader.” It’s like, “Well, but what kind of supervisor are you?”
And I was like, well, no, it’s… We’re kind splitting hairs here. But and even that idea that you… And I guess as a real quick follow-up, if you can kind of clarify my understanding on this, you didn’t necessarily start here or from day one be like, “I’m certain…” You sort of evolved or sort of matured into it as you maybe heard more about it or read more about it and those sort of things. Is that correct?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, there’s so many different leadership styles and supervisory styles out there, and I think for me, when I thought about it or had done, let’s see what your style is, I think I used to kind of delegate or do whatever kind of other styles that were out there. And it wasn’t that it necessarily didn’t sit well with me.
I think to me, when I just started doing a little more research and started digging into things a little more, this is the thing that servant leadership was kind of the lens that felt more natural to the space that I would kind of occupy. So, no. I mean, then this was literally a few jobs ago, let’s be honest, when I was actually able to kind of say, “This is it.
This is a space that I come from, this is the lens that I want to look through my supervisory style and how I want to help develop staff and what that looks like from that space.” And some of that, obviously as a part of it, there are tenants that come at servant leadership, kind of the empathy and wanted to be in community with people. And as you said before, it is, I would not ask you to do anything that I would not do myself. Right?
I’m not going to send you into whatever a space and just be like, “Hey, you got it. Thanks so much.” I’m right there beside you. I’m there if you need me. I’m not one of those people who naturally wants to, I don’t micromanage. I try to figure out who has time for that, right? First of all.
So but I want to give you the autonomy to be able to do your work, the trust that comes with it, the knowledge and everything, and I want you to be able to do good work. I want you to be creative when it comes to that space and let you do it. I am here as your cheerleader, as the person who is watching and doing all those things. I’m here when you need me, but it’s yours. I hired you for a reason. Right?

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. Well, because that’s the version. I think micromanagement often comes from ego or something. The idea of, “Well, nobody can do it except me, so I’ve got to be there, or I’m just going to take over and whatever else.” But that idea of, again, sort of pivoting where it’s like, “I will be there and help you if you need me to, but I’m not going to presume and assume that you need me to do it for you or be there with you or whatever else.
But you tell me and I’m going to empathize and understand.” Like, Oh, okay. Absolutely. You just need a little kind of scaffolding as you kind of grow here. But yeah, and I think that idea of, to kind of get to my next question, that you went through some supervisory experiences and I think maybe tested your instincts and different things that once you got to a point of like, “Well, yeah, I’ve done stuff.” And this label of servant leadership really does feel like it fit based on just intuitively the way that I kind of operate or what I aspire towards.
And then you now start to have a target to aim for of like, “Okay, here are the tenants. I’m going to really try to incorporate these.” But so I guess I’m curious, because this might be a brief answer, but maybe you can just reflect on it on any number of ways, but what kinds of supervisory training have you received or maybe pursued?
Because I think again, it is that, okay, you do a good job, you get put into sort of a more managerial or supervisory position because you’re just good at being X, Y or Z. And I think any organization could really, that resonates with them. So yeah, any supervisory training that you have received or pursued over the years?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
At other institutions I’ve worked at, they’ve had professional development kind of, “Hey, there’s a supervisory maybe one, two, three, or kind of structure or a thing you can do.” But probably the things that have been most impactful for me, I usually walk to work, thankfully we have good weather most times, even if it’s cold. But I like to listen to podcasts, lots of leadership podcasts, and John Maxwell and just other folks out there who just talk about leadership all the time.
So to me, there are topics that come up obviously all the time that when I think about my own leadership in that lens, it’s always nice to be thinking about things from different perspectives or even folks who have business leadership podcasts. Yes, I mean, we work in residence life and housing at an institution. I mean, we’re basically running a business. We’re doing the things here.
In addition to that, and I kind of pulled out some of the books that I have, but I have a lot of leadership books and The i in Team, all the great things to me that have been ways on my own time, obviously, to keep reading about leadership and keep challenging myself. Right? Because at the end of the day, the last thing you want to do is be stagnant as a leader or just assume that everything, just because you’ve reached maybe whatever is the pinnacle of your career or maybe what you think is right now is the pinnacle.
So to me, it is about continuing to educate myself in that way, read books, when I am able to do presentations on supervision, like kind of do my own things. So I helped with, I’m in the [inaudible 00:18:49] region. Yay, best region. And I helped with [inaudible 00:18:52] a few years ago in doing some presentations there and obviously at conferences and stuff. So to me, the more times that I’m able to continue to talk about it or do research on it helps my own supervision.
Right? And once again, I will never say that I’ve hit the peak because there’s always room to learn and grow. The best supervisors are the ones who are actually taking the feedback that they received from their staff and doing something with it. I have a little post-it note that I keep on my computer and I’m staring at right now, and this says, “Feedback is a gift.” So it is a reminder always that I want to continue to be better.
I know how to treat people with dignity and respect and all those things, and I will never not do that, which is a huge piece of supervision too. And just wanting to truly look at the impact that I have on me and others around. And you never know that until you ask them, “What kind of impact am I having on you as a supervisor?
How can I be better? What does that look like?” So to me, it is about looking at leadership and supervision in the different lenses around and plugging into whatever those spaces are, books, podcasts, whatever, trainings, and challenging yourself to make sure that you are being better or continuing to ask yourself or just not being stagnant. That to me is important.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, because I think things that are coming to mind for me right now is that that idea of having these sort of instincts and kind of just following sort of your heart or whatever else, that will take you kind of far enough, but then it’s like you have to balance that, “Okay, let me do my homework here, listen to experts, read books, explore these concepts.” But then you also wouldn’t… because I’m thinking of certain companies and things. They’ll have these workshops or programs that you can get into, learn all the concepts of supervision and all that.
And I think sometimes, again, if it’s a very managerial task-driven of in kind of business, it’s like, yeah, it’s nice to have that box check to say, “This person has been trained to be a supervisor.” But it’s like, well, you might learn about it, then you don’t use it for a little while. But then they’re like, “Well, they’re trained, well, maybe we can put them in the position that’s…”
There has to be kind that harmonious balance of one, sort of the concepts. Two, just having good instincts or willingness and everything, kind of like nature versus the nurture. But then getting that sort of nurture, getting the exposure, doing it, and that’s testing your theories, sort of seeing “Okay, what felt right, what felt good,” and getting the feedback and all those sort of things.
If you can kind of have all those things in balance and have it be a continuous process to where, like you said, you’re not getting to a place and feeling, “Well, I’ve achieved all this because I’m so great, so why do I have to learn or change or whatever?” It’s like, no, it should feel like this kind of constantly streaming kind of flow between listening to that podcast, checking in with yourself of like, “Oh, I felt like I kind of wasn’t my best self or didn’t feel like I was showing up the way that I want to in that moment.”
But then also just listening when people talk to, give that gift, because it’s like that comes from a place of care when people do take the time to leave a review, give feedback, whatever it might be. But yeah, because I think that’s just my one reflection, is that this is a very good example of all those sort of things. And I think you could say that even about a lot of things that you just learn in life where it’s just like, yeah, you’d want this sort of experiential component.
You’d want to do all kind of the learning of kind of the formal concepts and things like that. But even just two where it’s like, okay, what feels like the right way for me? Because I think it’s just with anything that doesn’t have to just be like, “Well, there’s the one, right, and only way to be an engineer or to be…” That’s where the creativity comes out of, is what’s just in your heart.
It’s like, “Oh, I think we should be able to do it this way, or we can do it this way,” or whatever else based on all those things where it’s like everything kind of feeding off each other and all that stuff. Feel I’m kind of waxing poetic here, but that’s a very powerful insight that I appreciate. I feel like you’ve kind of helped me crystallize here, so yeah.

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
Yeah, it’s super important. Right? I mean, I think just, like you said, there’s so much about supervision. The art of supervising and managing folks, it doesn’t feel like, it doesn’t seem like it should be hard. Like, “Yeah, I can do this. Right?” I mean, you obviously have to balance in the work, actually doing your job and then the people and taking care of them and figuring out what that looks like. And as I said, not being afraid to truly check in and ask folks, “Am I doing this right? For you, am I doing this right?”
And I think people are afraid to ask that question because you don’t want the feedback. But you got to ask it, right? Because you got to be willing to change and be adaptable and all the things that come along with leading people and to be the model for them to then lead their folks. Right? Part of it is modeling the way. How do you want to make sure you were showing up for your team? I’m showing you how I want you to show up for your people, and so on and so forth, kind of down the line.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I mean, that’s another kind of segues to my final question of advice and everything. There’s a very good piece of advice when I think you’re in a very top level position is recognizing even if you are not pursuing it, that there is sort of a intangible spotlight put upon you. The idea of what you are or aren’t doing is also kind of in the mix of how you show up as a supervisor.
So you have to be just that much more mindful of how you’re kind of modeling the way and everything. And yeah, because I think that’s where people who don’t take supervision seriously enough, they don’t give it the respect that it sort of requires is just think like, “Oh, it’s just human beings kind of working together and all that.”
It’s like, yes, it is, but if you want to do it the right way, you kind of have to be so I guess even introspective about who you are and what your kind of your blind spots might be and all those sort of things, but then taking in the feedback externally. There’s so much to it that certainly I think it can feel overwhelming to some people. That’s another sort of check in with yourself and all that. It’s like, we don’t need everybody to be supervisors.
If you’re rocking it as an individual contributor, we want to make sure that we set you up to be in a position where that still feels sort of fulfilling and all that, but so I think that is something where I’ve even had to kind of interface with that myself is thinking that, “Oh, well.” I’m like, “My career isn’t as meaningful if I’m not supervising people.” And it’s just like, yeah, and I haven’t really had many opportunities to do that, but I’ve also had opportunities to do meaningful, fulfilling work and everything.
So that’s been something that I’ve kind of started a road where it’s like, well, if that happens, that’s great, but I’m still a valuable member of the team doing the things that I’m doing, so and that in part is due to having good supervisor who are able to be supportive of me and all that. So I don’t know. Yeah. And I feel like it’s kind of par for the course with all these episodes, but I feel like I have a really good conversation.
I’m just externally frosted. Sort of like I got all these great ideas and everything, so I appreciate all that you’ve shared. We will wrap up though. We’ll make sure to get the books that you had there with you linked out in these show notes as well as your writing and everything. So if you do have any other resources, that’d be great to include as well. But if not, final thoughts, advice sort of wrapping everything up as we wind down here?

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
In 2019, so right before the pandemic, I was able to do a sprint session for ACUHO-I, now Campus Home. LIVE!, and one, I did one of the PechaKucha, probably saying it wrong, speeches. And part of that speech, it was a little bit about me and supervision and all those things.
One of the things I said, and I will preface this to say I’m a pretty level CrossFitter, but if you ever talk to anyone who does CrossFit, they’ll talk to you about CrossFit all day long. But one of the things I said in that speech was don’t be a burpee in someone’s professional journey. And what that means, if you’ve ever done the movement of a burpee, it’s first of all, it’s miserable, it’s all the things, and if you’re like me, you kind of dread when it comes up in a WOD.
But when I said Don’t be a burpee in someone’s professional journey, when they mention your name as being a past supervisor or maybe a staff member or employee, in whatever, don’t be the reason that someone frowns up. Or when you, like I said, when I hear the word burpee, it’s like, “Oh God, I don’t want to do this.” Don’t be that reason for someone. Right?
Think about the impact that you are having on someone’s life. Think about the legacy that you were trying to lead and just do good to people. That’s really it, right? It does not take a lot to be kind to someone and everything else, and I just want folks to think about the impact and the legacy and all the things that come with it. And just if you don’t remember anything else, just don’t be a burpee in someone’s professional journey.

Dustin Ramsdell:
That is a good, catchy final thought I’m sure many folks will remember. And because I like what you’re saying there too, is I think to me, you’re not necessarily saying you’re expecting perfection, that idea of, “Well, you got to be the perfect leader, so you’re not that one that they dread remembering in their past career” or whatever. Because to me, it’s even just that acknowledgement sometimes where like us all being human, we all make mistakes and everything like that, where it’s like if you can sometimes make it clear to people, blame my head, not my heart.
I might’ve just sort like, “Hey, didn’t know that wasn’t how you like to be sort of managed or supervised” or whatever. But it’s like, “Hey, as long as my heart is always in the right place, I want to be as supportive and empathetic and all these sort of things,” that I think can always be an anchor whether or not you have trip ups from now and again, which is just completely human and completely okay.
But it is that idea of sometimes if you do have those little trip ups, but somebody thinks like, “This person just doesn’t get it. They don’t understand me, they don’t care about me,” whatever. It’s like those things just exacerbate the issue when it’s just like they can’t even… I don’t know. Know that one-on-ones are super important to me, whatever. So it’s like, yeah. So I think that idea of if you can just earnestly know that you are constantly striving to not be that burpee, to not do that, then I think you’re going to be on the right path.
And I think and that is all the other things that we mentioned of really just trying to take the feedback, take the opportunities to learn and grow through any variety of means, and certainly checking out the resources that we’ll share in the show notes is a good way to do that as well. So just thank you so much for sharing all of your reflections, all of your insights and experiences and for being a writer. And again, we’ll have links in the show notes for folks to check out and ways to connect with you as well. So just really appreciate your time.

Dr. Stephanie Carter-Atkins:
Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.