ResEdChat Ep 91: The Power of Partnership: Working Together with Campus Police to Support Students

Crystal Lay:
Hello and welcome back to Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great work and those who talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. I’m your host, Crystal Lay. I use the she/her series pronouns. Today we’re going to be talking about the relationship and partnerships that we can have between campus police and our housing staff. This is an area I am particularly interested in because I’ve had the opportunity to work at several different institutions and realize the importance of a strong partnership and communication between the two offices. At times, that can be a little bit tricky because of the things that have been happening in the media, some of the things that may happen on some of our campuses, and I thought what better way than to engage with a human that we’ve had some beautiful and really candid conversations in this topic.
I thought why not bring this here so we can think about how this might come up on our campuses and hopefully lead to some pretty successful and great conversations as we think about what we want for our staff and also our students who live with us. So with that, I’ll have our guest introduce themselves.

Doreen Jokerst:
Well, thank you so much, Crystal, for having me. I’m super excited to be here. My name is Doreen Jokerst and I’m the Assistant Vice Chancellor and Chief of Police at the beautiful University of Colorado, Boulder. Thank you again, Crystal. I’m super excited to be here.

Crystal Lay:
I am excited for you to be here too. We had a really great partnership and you’re just someone that I really admire for the candidness and really cool moments that we’ve had to discuss this topic and then other topics as we’ve learned together over the years. So my first question, I’m really curious, tell me why did you decide to be a police officer and then how did that lead you to becoming a chief at a university?

Doreen Jokerst:
Perfect, thank you. So I knew I wanted to be a police officer for quite some time. We had an aunt that lived out in San Francisco and we went and visited her. So when you’re out there, you’re doing all the tourist attractions and what that looks like, and we toured Alcatraz and it was fascinating to me and I looked at my parents and I said, “I want to be a police officer. This is what I want to do. I want to help people.” My whys, Crystal, of why I got into policing, one is to leave the community better than I found it, to try and positively impact and two, to speak for the victims that no longer have a voice. So really at a very young age, I knew.
So our city that we lived in had a police explorer program, so at the age of 14, I joined the cadet program and I was super excited and I had a uniform and we went out there and worked different events until I was 20 and could enter the police academy. So I just knew I really wanted to be a part of the community. I wanted to help the community. I wanted to better and work with the community. So I was very fortunate when I was 21, I got hired on at a municipal police department. So I spent 20 years in municipal policing where I worked the different assignments in a police department, patrol and investigations and oversaw the communication center and records and property and evidence, and I just loved it.
At that time too, I was thinking about going back to school. I wanted to get a PhD, I had a master’s degree, and so I started teaching school at a local university. So I knew I really had a passion for policing, I had a love of learning, and the CU Boulder Police Department Chief’s job opened up at the same time. I remember talking to my husband, Crystal, and saying, “Hey, what do you think about this? I spent 20 … I’m in a city. I’ve never worked at a university”, and he says, “Doreen, I think it’s a perfect time that your two worlds collided. You love education and you love policing and maybe this will work.”
So I was very honored and humbled when they offered me the Chief’s position here back in 2018, so I’ve been here about six years, and I really just feel like for me it’s a perfect time that my love of learning and policing and passion all got to collide together in Boulder. So it’s been a great time, but that’s kind of what got me into it was the police cadet program. So I love all the police departments that have cadet programs and help our youth kind of figure out and navigate what they love.

Crystal Lay:
That is a wonderful story. Now, my thought … I have to be honest, when I visited Alcatraz, my thought was not my career opportunity. It was, “Is this place haunted?” and stuff with that. I love that you talked about from a young age knowing, “This is what I want to do, what are the opportunities for me to learn more?”, and then here you are now serving and protecting students and making sure they have a really good experience. So that’s really, really neat and inspiring. From what you shared with me identity wise, you’re a woman, so how many women serve as police chiefs? I don’t think I’ve seen many. So is there a number, and then how does that impact your work and your role? Is there anything that you feel like you can or can’t do because of that identity?

Doreen Jokerst:
That’s a great question. So women comprise nationally 50% of the population, but unfortunately women in leadership positions in police departments, so probably the rank of lieutenant and above, serve only 3% of those positions. And that’s been the same for probably the past 20 years. So women as a whole in policing, so a commission position, a sworn position like I am, with any rank, they’re about 12%, Crystal, nationally within police departments. Now, mind you, there’s 18,000 police departments nationally. So that’s anything from very small rural organizations to very large organizations, and that includes university police departments as well, county sheriff’s departments. So unfortunately, 12% of women comprise police commission position, less than 3% comprise a leadership role, and that would be even less than as the chief role from the 3%.

Crystal Lay:
Wow. Wow. Have you found that knowing those numbers and then maybe … I don’t know if you’ve had experiences. How has that come up for you being a woman, a part of this very small grouping, and then showing up in what sounds like a male-dominated field?

Doreen Jokerst:
Yeah. So completely male-dominated field and I would say for me, some of my best mentors, Crystal, have been men. I have never actually worked for a female supervisor in a commission position. So some of my best mentors have been men who have helped me navigate this space and see what that looks like, and I’ve learned a lot of things along the way. Sometimes it’s the adversarialness or the challenges that we receive in all of our careers that yield the biggest results. So sometimes with those challenges, I even thought to myself, “Man, if I ever get promoted to the rank of sergeant”, the next level up, usually, from a police officer position, “I would do things differently at a police department.”
So instead of letting it define me, I let it inspire me within those ranking positions. Then I thought, “Man, if ever I’m a sergeant and I make it to lieutenant, I would do things differently in this police department.” So that’s what I did all the way to … I said, “Man, if I’m ever able enough to achieve the rank of Chief, I would run things differently within a police department.” So it was those experiences, both great and some challenges, that helped navigate the spaces in which I entered to try and very hard to change it to the positive within my field and within my span.

Crystal Lay:
So you took moments that were challenging and used that to inspire you.

Doreen Jokerst:
That’s right.

Crystal Lay:
And you’re now taking this opportunity to say, “As a leader, here’s how I want to lead. Here’s the opportunities I want folks to get.” That’s really powerful, Doreen. So I want to ask you a little bit about this term I’ve heard. I’ve heard community policing. What does that mean, and then does that show up in a university setting?

Doreen Jokerst:
So community policing to me is the foundation which our department is founded on. It’s the foundation which my previous agency was on, but it’s really a proactive, Crystal, very collaborative approach to help prevent crime. So it focuses on community involvement. I’m a strong believer that we’re better together than we ever are apart, and it’s really built on forming trust and bonds between the community and public safety and establishing those effective relationships. I strongly believe by working with the community, it will yield a much better result. I believe this is the community’s police department. I strongly believe in the Sir Robert and the Peelian principles that said the community are the police and the police are the community. So we definitely are better together.
So it’s having those authentic, very unique trust conversations to talk about problem solving because what I see as problems in the neighborhood is not what our community constituents see, it’s not what our staff and faculty see. It might be something different. So we all view these things through different lenses, and the only way that you can solve, help, prevent or make better is by having these conversations and coming together. You and I, Crystal, have had a lot of those conversations. It’s made me a better chief. It’s made us have a better community, but it takes those conversations and working together, police and community together.

Crystal Lay:
Thank you for saying that and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you today because we’ve had those conversations and a lot of those conversations from my lens have been about race. It’s been about where someone comes from, the incidents in the news with police and civilians. So if someone has some of these views and it can impact whether or not they’re open to working with you or their views of police, I really want to know what are your thoughts on how officers can adjust or engage with students and staff who may be fearful based on lived experiences or things they’ve seen in the news?

Doreen Jokerst:
That’s a really great question, Crystal. So for me, it’s extremely important to meet people where they are. That might mean that it’s not at a police department because that’s not a safe space for them. What might be safe for me and what’s normal for me and what that looks like might not be for somebody else. So maybe that’s over the phone, Crystal. Maybe that’s in a neutral location that they discuss. Because at the end of the day, without us working together, the community suffers, the students suffer, staff. It has to create that bond. So it’s very important to me that I try very hard to meet people where they are at. Secondly, officers need to understand that everyone is going to come to your point from different backgrounds, beliefs, and what that looks like. So we have to respect and acknowledge that.
Not everybody has a very promising or positive impact of police. A number of people have not had great experiences with police that helps shape and form their views on what that looks like. So it is very important that people understand that, especially at a university where you have people from all different identities, cultures, race, different states, countries, that all comes together. So for me, it’s also understanding that people have multiple intersections. So like you said, I’m a woman, I’m white, I’m in a position of power with this police department and this ranking structure. I’m also a mom, a wife, and those things … and my dad was in the military, so I was raised in a very structured household. My mother worked from the home. So those things helped shape my identity and who I am, but it is not lost on me that not everybody shares those same things.
So really, Crystal, it’s meeting people where they’re at, it’s understanding that people have different backgrounds and different views. How I think we should solve a problem might be different to somebody else, and without hearing those voices or creating space for people to be able to use and share their voice, it’s going to be lost. So at the end of the day, I really want people to run to us for help and not run away. So anything I can do to build those bridges, work with our community, work with our students, faculty, our staff, our affiliates, those that visit our beautiful campus for different various events, athletic venues, whatever the case may be, I want people to run to us for help and not run away. So I will work and make a promise from my police department and myself that we will do those things to make sure that occurs.

Crystal Lay:
I’ve never heard that phrasing of run to us instead of away from us, and I think that really captures the mentality or some of the spirit of we want folks to feel connected and welcomed and your presence to feel like, “Okay, they’re protecting me” and this event or this activity or this incident will be okay because you all are there to deescalate and provide support and resources. So I really am appreciative of you saying it in that way.
So when we worked together, I remember this time I had this conversation with you, and then there was one of your officers, we had a student leader from RHA, and we talked about some concerns that that student group had, that the staff had. There were some questions. I think at the time it felt hard and even some of these questions, I’m shaking, I’m like, “But I know you. I know you.” But I think it’s so sensitive. But I thought the meeting was really good because it provided some clarity and then we worked through some strategies on how to move through and forward some of the things that were happening at that campus. So with that in mind, do you have suggestions on ways to create space for healthy and productive dialogue between campus police and housing departments? What do you think would be helpful to begin that dialogue?

Doreen Jokerst:
Yeah. So I would say first and foremost, you have to have the conversation because absent the dialogue, whatever is manifesting is going to continue to get larger, it probably is not going to go away. So you have to have the conversation, but especially for police, you have to be receptive to feedback and open to suggestions that might be different than what you thought. The conversation, Crystal, of my saying I want people to run to us for help and not run away, it’s because I went to a meeting a few years back and someone had said, “Chief, when they look at you”, and you meaning the collective of police, because as you know, nine times out of 10, I wear a police uniform on campus, “People want to run away.” And I said, “I don’t want that. I want people to run to us.” So that is actually where it came from, is having these very challenging conversations that you do have to create space and dialogue that people feel comfortable talking to you.
It is not lost on me that for someone to report a crime, someone who may have had something terrible … experienced a total violation, for them to report it means they have to relive that experience and share it. Okay? I always say the victim has to go first, meaning they have to explain to the police department, “Here’s what happened to me.” Our survivors have to speak first. That is not lost on me and it takes a lot of courage, trust, and conversations to be able to do that. So I really think, number one, you have to have the conversation. Absent the conversation, the community does suffer, and two, police leaders need to be open-minded to different suggestions. If it wasn’t for those ideas and suggestions, I can tell you at our police department, a number of things wouldn’t happen.
So as you know, a few years back, we had a horrific mass shooting at a local grocery store and as a result, just like any campus, we have to put out emergency notifications and warnings that go out to the public. So it was probably a few weeks after that that a faculty member reached out to me and said, “Can I please have a conversation with you?”, and I said, “No problem”, and it was about the alert that went out. I said, “Let’s meet at the police department”, and I was not even thinking. This was the first time the faculty member had stepped foot voluntarily into a police department. What they had brought up, Crystal, was that when my alerts go out, that they’re only going out in one language, English, and they’re like, “If time is of the essence, wouldn’t you not have researched the top languages for our students, the top languages for our faculty and staff, and send it out in multiple languages so it can translate directly on their phone?”
If it was not for that person bringing forth suggestions, we would not be sending out today our emergency notifications in multiple languages. So I highlighted through Success Stories and saying, “Hey, this is not me. This is this person who said, “I have an idea to make our community safer. I have an idea that we should be doing something better out of your police department”, and we do that today. So I really think it’s highlighting those successes and saying, “Hey, this chief does listen. She is receptive to feedback and hearing those things and creating space for those voices to feel comfortable enough to pick up the phone and say, “Hey, I think you could actually be doing something a little bit better, and I have an idea for you. Would you be open to hearing it?” For me, Crystal, every single time, the answer is yes, I would.

Crystal Lay:
Yes. Yeah, that was a really difficult time, and knowing the work that you all put into sharing who you all are as officers and what your mission was and how you were there to serve I think helped or added to the community trying to move through what was really tragic. I love that you shared that example of something that was really easy to do and can save lives by adding additional languages to those alerts. So thank you for modeling being open.
So we’ve talked about the pieces of everyone … pick up the phone, give advice, right? You’ve talked about how it can be easy to have these conversations, just make the thing happen. Okay. And? What if there’s resistance? There is resistance. Like housing staff is like, “Nope. Because of where I’m from, I don’t want anything to do with them.” Maybe there’s not a good partnership. Or maybe on the police side, it’s like, “No, we’re trained, we’re good, we don’t need feedback”, et cetera. Whatever side of the house is coming from. How do we work to identify a common goal and make a commitment to care and support each other? Do you think it’s possible if there’s resistance?

Doreen Jokerst:
I absolutely do think it is possible, especially when there is resistance. We are all here to support our students. We may have different paths and you may do it differently than I do, but at the end of the day, our mission is here to support our students. So what I would say to some of our resident advisors, our hall directors, those that might not feel comfortable meeting with police, maybe you know someone, such as you, Crystal, that they can reach out to you and say, “Hey, I don’t feel comfortable with this, but I know you have a relationship with them. Are you able to navigate these conversations?” What I’d first say is look for a conduit of comfort to bring up the situation, but then when it is comfortable, be a part of that conversation as well. So I know a number of times we had conversations, but then you invited people in and they felt more comfortable because you were there.
I thought that was great and I’m good with that because, again, I do think absent not bringing up certain concerns or issues or criminal activity, those things are going to persist. So on our campus, I’m authorized 51 police officers. And so that’s my position on down. Just as your campus, you have thousands of people there and so that means to me, everyone’s job and responsibility is public safety, and we take a very holistic approach. So what am I doing for public safety? What is student affairs doing for public safety? What’s our dean of students office doing? What’s our academic affairs office doing? What is everyone doing to ensure a safe and thriving environment on our campuses? So taking a holistic approach where each person has different ways and different ideas to bring forth different suggestions I think is really important. And then it’s hopefully having those authentic conversations.
So then when someone feels comfortable, then says, “Hey, can I ask you a question? How do you navigate this? What does it look like in regards to …” As you said, we’ve had a number of race conversations involving police. What does that look like from your standpoint? How do you navigate that? So then you can open up and have a lot more authentic conversations. So it’s hopefully then creating a space and a place for people to feel comfortable and ask those questions. One thing I do is on our website, my email’s on there. I have never turned down a conversation with anybody in regards to having questions or concerns. I would say maybe I’m not always great with vendors that reach out to sell something, but as far as our students, faculty and staff, our parents, I meet with parents a lot before school starts and they say, “Hey, my child’s going to school there, and I’m just a little concerned”, or “I read about this” and I’ve reached out to 100% of everybody.
So I think it’s really creating those comfortable environments and sometimes, Crystal, that’s not reaching out to me or the police department directly, but it’s someone they feel comfortable with reaching out to and being a part of that, and I think that’s a great way as well.

Crystal Lay:
I think sometimes the resistance may come from maybe there’s repair that needs to happen as well, and so I like this idea of if I believe that I have been harmed, whatever side of the house, I might not be the best person. Or maybe going to the police might not be the best step and so who can I bring in to help advocate for me or help me process? What are my resources to figure out, okay, we have to work together. If that’s how it is, right? We have to work together. What does repair look like? What does healing look like so we can work through and move forward? I think that’s some of the pieces where … because resistance could be, again, lived experience, things on TV, it could be something that happened on that campus, and so how do you build that into that too and create some space and grace to give back to that shared goal of, again, supporting our students?

Doreen Jokerst:
Yeah, that’s great, Crystal. Those are all … everything you just outlined is truly great, and I believe that too.

Crystal Lay:
Thank you. Thank you. So let’s do something fun if that’s … I want to talk about success because one of the coolest things that I remember from one of our conversations, we had a student that said, “Hey, sometimes I see a police car …” and I know when I am driving on the road, I will see a police car on the road and it’s empty”, and I was like, “Why is this car here?” It was more so for visibility. So I don’t know if you could talk about those pieces, but I think that was a really cool moment of a success moment for me of like, let me just get an understanding of what these symbols or things mean that I see around campus.
But I’m thinking more so programmatically. So what are some successes that you’ve had with students and staff who live on campus? Programmatically, a conversation you want to highlight, just something that makes you really proud when you think about supporting a residence life or housing team or any of our community members that live on.

Doreen Jokerst:
Yeah, I think that’s great. So we’ve had a number of success stories in regards to it. We’ve had different residence advisors reach out because they saw something that led to different criminal behavior that may have been occurring. We’ve had different resident advisors and hall directors reach out and just ask questions like, “Hey, I don’t know if this person’s doing so well or what this looks like”, and we’re able to provide resources. So I do think words matter, Crystal, and so when I look at a police department, I think resources. So you think that with victim assistance, you think that with Title IX office and health and wellness. Well, I would like people to think about that with the police department too. We are a resource here for our students, faculty, and staff. We are here to help.
Most of my time is spent on prevention and education. If I can prevent something from happening instead of always responding to it, what can we look at from a risk mitigation and just an overall feeling of safety? There’s a number of times I have conversations with our students that’s not criminal in nature, there’s not a crime, but people don’t feel safe for whatever reason. The shared spaces in which they’re in is not safe for them. Maybe it’s marginalized communities or those that have been historically excluded. So it’s important for me that we create this community and have a community of safety, even if it’s not what they’re describing as criminal in nature.
So I get conversations on that a lot in regards to, “I didn’t want to call you. I didn’t know what we have.” Well, let’s just have a conversation because I’m still a university leader that might be able to tee up these conversations or bring in those expertise that we have throughout campus to try and get these things solved and what that looks like. So we’ve had a number of success stories with that. Then usually what happens is people ask questions. “Can I ask you a question about your uniform? Why do you wear this? Why do you have stars on your collar? What does that look like? What’s on your belt?” So then we can start breaking that stuff down. I ask them all the time, “What question did you always want to ask a police officer? You can ask me. And If I don’t know it, I’ll try and find out.”
So then we start getting invited into classrooms and engaging with students, because sometimes you can be in a class that has nothing to do with criminal justice or public safety, but policing comes up. Maybe it’s something they saw nationally in the news and these organic conversations come up. So I love when they invite me in and have conversations and I just say, “You can ask me anything you want. I will try and answer it best I can.” So probably another success story is with our student athletes. The football coach and his team had reached out and said, “Hey, we start football camp.” A couple weeks ago, it was on a Sunday, Crystal, at 7:30 in the morning, but the coach … I know, early.
But the coach, they reached out to me and said, “Really wants to humanize policing. And you talk about we’re better together. Will you come to their first day of football camp with a couple other chiefs and talk about how we’re in this together?” And I said, “How amazing?” The first day of football camp where they’re trying to level set expectations, here’s what you do and uniforms and showing up, that you have three police chiefs up there talking about, “Hey, I do want you to run to me for help. I don’t want you to run away. We have athletic liaisons in our police department. Please reach out for help.” And before you know it, we got a couple phone calls that said, “Hey, I have a question about this”, or “That’s what this looks like.”
So I do think we have a number of success stories that I’m truly, truly grateful for. Again, not lost on me that sometimes it requires a person to reach out to police, but hopefully I can do things to create that environment that they feel comfortable to do so no matter what their question is.

Crystal Lay:
I also … I was like, “What do those six stars mean?” That thought came into mind. But I like the piece about the education and thinking of you all as a resource. I don’t know if that’s the sentiment at every campus of here’s another resource available to us to support the community, to educate us, to engage with us, to partner with us, and I want my housing here to think about it. How do we talk about the police on our campuses? Is it in the same vein as, as you said, victims advocates, career development center, while also being sensitive to every office has some pieces that we should always be mindful of? I know for housing, some housing campuses or departments, there are stories too and things they’re trying to dispel and work through. So I love that we have similar pieces of we all want to be resources, we’re referral agents and we want to make sure that, again, students get what they need.
So can you tell me what is the highlight of the year for you? What do you look forward to every year? Because I know we’re getting ready to head into opening as we think about our students. What’s that moment for you on a campus where you’re like, yes, and you really look forward to it?

Doreen Jokerst:
So I would say probably a couple things. My first thing is students moving in, and with their parents … because I will be in this role next year, I have a senior and a sophomore, and I just see … you know, they gave their children roots and wings and they want them to develop and flourish. At the same time, they’re nervous because it’s probably their first time away from home for so long. So I see these parents … so I walk campus, we have move in next week, I’ll be walking around, and I look at … and say, “It’s okay”, and whoever their guardians may be who are dropping them off their loved ones, “It will be okay. And if you need anything, please reach out.”
So I love seeing the campus go back to being vibrant and full of life, and I love that, and I love commencement. I love seeing our graduates walk across the stage and parents there and knowing that they work so hard for this moment. Graduation for me is always such an amazing … I love listening to the speeches. I get inspired. I love the music. So graduation or commencement is really great for me as well. So seeing just the campus fill back into life. Because I tell you, I believe I’ve become a better chief because of those conversations with you, our students, faculty, and staff, and asking different things and saying, “Why not this? What about this?” I think that’s really is what’s going to progress the policing profession forward and making the necessary enhancements and changes we need to see.

Crystal Lay:
Definitely. So I have one more question for you. It’s a little bit of a two-parter. So as we think about our housing professionals who want to have a successful partnership or build bridges with their campus police, what should they do? Is there a place where they can get more information? My part two to that, Doreen, which I’m throwing in here, is as students are engaging with police on their campus, are there any general tips or thoughts that you have about how to … and I don’t even know if this is a question, right? But are there any general tips or ways to engage for our students?

Doreen Jokerst:
Yeah, I got you. So I would say for those campuses that have police department or public safety positions, maybe they’re not sworn or commissioned but they have a public safety entity, look on the website, there’s definitely going to be ways to reach out. A number of police departments such as ourselves, we do a lot of community events. So we do Coffee with a Cop. I think you’re the one that told me about cornhole, but now we do Cornhole with a Cop. So we’ve bought all the branded … so we do that. We have done stuff with our different residence halls. We’ve done pancakes in the middle of the night. I’ve been there at 11 o’clock at night cooking up some pancakes, and we did a Top Ramen thing and all these different types of things. So we try very hard to get to know our community before the first call for service.
So I would say yes, I definitely … policing in general is seen as a if this happens, Crystal, then call these people, and I’m like, hey, before that happens, why don’t you engage us or let us come to the table to see if that part never maybe … can be prevented or mitigated or anything like that. So I would say go up to your local police department and say, “Hello, this is who I am.” For staff and faculty, reach out to your police departments and see if you can engage in conversation. For students coming to campus and everything else, I would say the same thing. The police department is here to help. We are a resource. We are here to provide assistance in any which way that we can.
If you don’t feel comfortable, then reach out to me. I would be more than happy to help navigate the conversations on any respective campus with your policing officials and your leadership there, to have those … I strongly believe we are better together than we ever are apart. To make this world a better place, it’s going to collectively take all of us, and it starts with having these conversations, Crystal. So I applaud and thank you for definitely inviting me.

Crystal Lay:
Doreen, you are one of my favorite humans. I think I’ve said that way too many times on this podcast, but I mean it. You truly are one of my favorite humans, and I am so appreciative of the work that you’re doing on your campus and how you’re really providing some really great opportunities for the students who live there. And then just all the tips that you shared here. I hope that folks feel inspired and encouraged. I think also you being a woman who is a leader in this high ranking position, the highest ranking position on that campus in the policing world, that’s really powerful too. So I just want to thank you for everything that you do and who you are and what you’ve shared with us today.
So this has been delightful. Lots of great information. Doreen, I cannot thank you enough for joining us today to talk about this topic. So everyone, thank you for joining us on this episode of ResEdChat. If you have an idea of a topic or there’s a person that you would like us to talk to, please reach out to us here at Roompact. Take care.